Chiller box mod project

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The main radiator cools the engine, the secondary heater core radiator heats the inside of the car, the reason I brought that up was to consider the uses of radiators before they were ever modified for use in the computer water cooling.

The radiator itself is not an active cooling component, the water flows through it period and it's only means to affect the waters temperature is the air flowing through the cooling fins.

If the air in the room is cooler than the water flowing through the radiator it cools, if the air in the room is hotter than the water flowing through the radiator it heats.
Click to expand...

Exactly...a very good point to be made. The differences in ambient room and water temps determines if the water warms the surrounding air or if the surrounding air cools the water or vice-versa. It's the same concept used for high and low pressure systems with energy- higher energy will always move to lower energy in an effort to equalize the differences.
 
Yay! Inputtz 😛
Ok, I'll address what I can :)
I watched as you removed the rads from your loop and understand the reason for it,
I also understand the heater exchange principle mentioned and I'm very aware the box alone won't be able to cool things (Could always uprate the Peltier in the box though right?)
My Pc actually seems to cool the room you know?
Small room, lots of fans, summer was nice in here lol
I'm not really for the idea of stacking the cold up overtime and only having a short Eq time to play with, I want a balanced, controllable set up where switching the Pelt on will give me xxx drop as a constant, and I'm just waiting on the fittings now, foam and sensor turned up today
IMAG0708.jpg


The other half is at work on saturday morning and I have to clean her Pc out but thats not a big job, after that I can get onto prepping for the rebuild hehe
first up though will be getting the sensor into the box and just taking some data for ambient, maximum drop, time taken etc then I have a baseline to refer to after I add it to the loop,
The Peltier is supposed to achieve a 16'C below ambient temperature so taking into consideration that it has to cool a mass it won't be as low as that in practice,
thats aside from the fact I'm dumping heat into it, but say that with the added heat and difficulty in reaching maximum potential it can only cool to 5-10'C below ambient then thats around the mark, I can then use the heating effect to raise the temperature to above the dewpoint so the 'negative' effects of the rads adding ambient heat would actually be utilised to maintain a desired water temp,
I have a fair amount of playroom with the fans remember, all off,some on, on full or low, but first target I suppose is to make sure that the chiller can actually get me a good measure below ambient, and then go from there (If it can't I'll uprate the Tec)
I can't believe I got to the point of putting foam tubing in my Pc lol, but I'm justifying it to my Ocd cable Daemon self by aiming for that 4.6GHz, may have to 'settle' for 4.5Ghz everyday but lets wait and see, I need to remove the throttling temperature from the equation and that means a load temp of around 42-45'C,
seems wierd typing that lol, I'm almost at the point that my load temps will be other folks idle temps :O
Sorry if my ramblings are a little disjointed today and make no sense, Gf isn't too well atm and theres RL stuff all over my brain heheh
I'm confident (Read as: I KNOW I can do it 😛) I can get Sub-A cooling here, its just tweaking to find the best approach and I do have a good partner to bounce ideas off as well as you guys :)
Moto
 
Ok, temptation got the better of me lol,
Cores at 27'C doing this so basically idling
Ambient temp according to my normal sensor=20.81'C
Water temp in loop (T-Virus sensor)= 21.56'C
Water in chiller box=17'4'C
its not hooked up, its just a mass of standing water in a 21'C room thats insulated enough to get nearly 5'C below the ambient,
now, lets throw the power and see what happens,
Igor, pass my coat and goggles please...

19:10 powered on pelt using 12v Molex line, temp dropping fairly quickly, 16.4'C after about a minute
19:12> 14.4'C
19:14> 13.2'C
19:17> 12.1'C
19:20>11.4'C room temp shows as 21.6'C (Heat from Pelt affecting room temp I think, must factor that into calculations)
so I'll see what its like in another 20 mins, I have to eat before work and a 30 min run should give a balanced idea of what the chiller can do to the standing mass
19:38> 10'C and Ambient 21.5'C so, I can assume/hypothesize that the chiller gives me a 11'C drop on the current volume, tomorrow I'll see what altering the mass and having it moving does to the temperature by hooking it up to the main rig as a standalone cooler first
I don't think it will handle the heatload very well but must record the data
I haven't added the third pump yet so this would be working on my current (in my eyes weak) flowrate,
initially showing promise though
**Opened the lid to check the sensor was in the water, I don't believe it was as drops that drastic on the watermass aren't possible with the kit I have, and the temp skyrocketed to 16'C+ so its obviously very sensitive to ambient lol, I can see very clearly now the effect insulation has on things
holding steady at 15'C now with the lid back on so I think circulation may help with distributing the cold more effectively, once the loops feeding into it that should provide enough movement to agitate the water a little,
I used to see threads with numbers and groan, now I'm actually enjoying the experience
Oh and the set up is a real bodgejob lol, The secondary Psu is sat on my work Pc under my desk (cables tucked behind that) with the green and black shorted with a paperclip, I'll make pretty happen after I get results
And I'm definitely modding some decent fans onto it, the doublefan thing fitted is too noisy for my liking
**Edit, too many emoticons

Moto
 
hmm, modo, I'm now tempted to go and do something of this nature once I get past my 2 buildlogs. really great temps :)

@ ryan - that is a lot of food for thought!!! these kinda threads were what made me watercool a simple beat up case to what it its shaping up to now... :)

now I need to outdoo all of you 😀 maybe a canister of LN2 circulating through system blocks under containment? devoid of atmospheric exposure 😛
 
@Aaab, not sure what the thanks are for but you are welcome, glad you like it
@Lutfij, oh where to start hehe,
You're tempted to go this route now? GOOD! Inspiring others is an awesome achievement so thank you for that praise 🙂
And yes!!! Please do try to take mine and Ryan's work, tweak and improve it further, I want you to outdo me because then I have to get off my can and beat you, continuous improvement only benefits everyone 🙂
LN2 on a loop though? You'd need expansion chambers and a compressor to re-liquify the heated gas, I'd also be wary of explosions or leaks 🙂
Moto
 
Ahh, Moto, The experimentation and discoveries are well underway!

It's nice you're showing those numbers.

It's interesting to see just what you'll be able to get from the chillerbox when it comes to compensating the CPU heat load, and it's affects on the water temperature in the cooler.

@Lutfij, We're paving a road here for new possibilities regarding water cooling, it's really not about outdoing each other, it's about discovering what really works very well and can be duplicated.

Any new ideas and experiments are truly welcomed, I am ecstatic Moto is doing what he is because his experimentation will further possibilities in this area we may all very well be pioneers in TEC assisted water cooling, learning from each others success and failures, as I have had both so far in my ventures.

@rubix_1011, Thank You Sir! :)
 
:) I am interested in setting up a cooling solution that'd take up an entire corner of my room - and end up with squint eyes like igor 😛 joke on the latter part though 😀

I admire people who try their level best in order to try and make a radical idea presentable. It just shows people that you may be an underdog but an underdog to be taken seriously 😀

* the observation of having the ambient temp affect rad temps is some interesting stuff...

** oh yeah modo, I don't suppose you'll need those laminar inserts in your loop anymore eyh? :)
 


The space even an external RadBox requires will be the killer in most homes, especially when the other half is inconvenienced, or you just don't want to occupy that much area for a computer setup.

That's when the reality of what you may possibly like to do conflicts with what is acceptable to you and the rest of those living with you.

My experiments are aimed toward making it all more reasonable and compact, and when you look at my thread from it's beginnings, using a 54qt cooler to now, I definitely have more of my office back.

My advantage is, my office is a man cave/experimental headquarters/PC gaming room/computer repair and rebuild/DJ headquarters/and surfing the net, my wife has her own office fixed exactly the way she wants it, and she stays out of mine, so I can pretty much do what I want.

Not everyone has that advantage, I have a friend that is so prim and proper that his home has to be a total showplace, that he completely flipped out when my family room speakers died and I moved a set of my DJ speakers in their place.

The DJ speakers are covered with black carpet resembling material and granted they do not match the furniture, but the surround sound during BlueRay movie playback even my wife didn't complain, but my friend thinks it's atrocious, but my friend doesn't live with us!

So it's really an individuals choice of what they will or will not do, when it comes to what I consider as the way beyond traditional water cooling, I'm definitely a lone wolf when it comes to computer cooling in my friends circles, but where do they come when they have a problem? :lol:




 
:lol: I hear ya man, I always get an odd call here and there for the occasional windows affected by virus fixups. Did some work in setting up my home office for both my design studio and my *system building* workshop recently and I seriously doubt I'd have been able to set it up in my prev house. As a designer, arguments seem like daily staple with my friends/clients in trying to get things right. So I think I understand what your friend feels like however also being an ex-DJ I'm nitpicky about the layers of sound with music, so the soundstage and hardware need to be setup properly(w/o breaking the bank) :sol:

guess you can say I'm a bit of both - prim&proper and DIY out-of-the-box guy.

In fact I've managed to setup a friends living room up with his Creative Soundworks PC works(2:1) in such a way that the meager setup gives him a full range of audio ->which was the sort of experiment I shot for and it was successful.
LivingRoomPanorama3.png

having such an aging hardware he mentioned that he was in search of a good soundsystem to keep in his family room but I thought about trying to use what was at hand instead of picking up a new set when the old one was working properly. He watches movies off his laptop, hooked to the 20" monitor and usually a 2:1 setup means all audio(rear and front) are muddled together but all you can clearly hear are the voices and the music except the 3D positional sounds(audible at higher volumes but with distortion). However in this experiment since the sound comes from behind the audience, the voices bounce off the front and hit your ear later while the environmental audio coming from the rear(by default) hit you first, giving the person sitting on the 3 seater couch the false yet satisfying sense of surround sound.

additional hardware: ext. tv card with laptop powering speakers. I used the laptops on-board mic to perform room correction->calibration done, sat to watch Iron man(2007) and... :)

^ a breakaway from your traditional *generic* 2 point speaker setup.
Oh, there's yet more work to be done in that room/crib of his.

* sorry for hijacking the thread again :) thought I'd chime in with Ryan's plans 😀
** Mods can edit this post out :) (if needed)
*** Modo don't get mad at the cables, I'm going to wall mount the speakers and have the wires run along the skirting. Subwoofer goes near the door close to the adjacent wall and there'll be shelving. Client also would like an HTPC setup later on.
 
Glad to see folks are thinking and more importantly doing :)
@Lutfij, without channelling into the wall you aren't hiding those so no worries
Ryan, praise from you is always welcome mate, I admire your approach and methodology and its great to see that its reciprocal, lets keep pushing :)

I'm just catching up on mail and forum posts then I'll remove the radbox and set the chiller up for duty,
I'm expecting this part to be a short-lived affair, I'm not confident that the chiller can handle three chips worth of heat but an hour or so should give us some numbers I can use
Moto
 
16:30: Powered on with just the chillerbox,casefans on low, booting up took the water from 14.6'C to 15.5'C as of typing,
up to 16'C at the end of typing that 😛
Ambient is 17.88'C
I'll put a little load on by running a virus scan just to get the Cpu working, but I fully expect to see 20'C+ very shortly.
Scan wasn't enough to give a decent load, so I ran IBT, I'm slowed down massively as one run was taking 37+ seconds, normally I'm around the 18-19s mark but max core temp was 38'C and the chiller box got to 18'C, I'm confused hehe, its performed better than I'd have thought :)
No resting on laurels though, I'll put back to 'normal' for now and test the chiller with the radbox at the weekend, Full power Cap'n 😛
I'm off to dig out a couple of 80Mm fans to replace the one in there, we aren't going to be friends if it continues lol
Moto
 
Ok, 4.6GHz on 1.55v, idling/typing at 33'c on cores 19.6'C in the box,
thats a 6'C drop compared to the radbox setup which normall idles at 39'C on 4.6GHz
Partytime or IBT fail? lets find out 😛
Interesting results,
IBT exploded at a mere 40'C so I'm pretty sure its not the temperature killing my aspirations but a mismatch of settings, aka my inexperience at overclocking 😛
I don't have tweaktime today but I at least know that the chiller is a viable cooling solution on its own so far,
and thats just on a hurried set up, not all of the tubing is insulated and I have wires wandering all over my desk hehe
So, state of play so far would appear to be,
A 48w Peltier in about 5L of water can handle two 6950's (stock) and a 4.6GHz 975BE, at least in the couple of hours I've been playing,
Temp is about 1'C above ambient at the moment but I'm not in a position to complain about a one degree delta,
And I am changing the bloody fan on the chiller first chance I get!!!

Moto
 



The thank's was for you creating this thread and sharing your progress for all of us to see :). I'm finding it quite a good/interesting read.

Only thing, is that it's tempting me a little too much to get into water cooling. Something that I've wanted to do for a while, but haven't had the time to sit down and start planning it.




 


When you're in your, "DIY out-of-the-box guy." mode, do you?

Read all the instructions first before you begin?

Read the instructions after assembly to see if you did it right?
 


You're running your CPU and GPUs in the same loop?

That's going to seriously limit your CPU overclocking headroom!

Remember striving to reach 4.6ghz stability with your AMD 975BE?

You won't do that with the GPUs in the same loop.

I suggest your RadBox handling the GPUs and the ChillBox handling the CPU, that will give you your best CPU overclocking headroom.
 
hahaha :lol: both actually and then I go about trying to reverse engineer it :sol: however the prim&proper fella likes custom built stuff more ---> even though thas the most expensive route IMO for me 🙁
 
With some things you have to read the instructions first, you really don't have a choice, like when I just installed my Kenwood CD Player in my KIA Sedona, I seriously needed instructions to remove the dash trim, to even get to the factory unit.

Additionally to assemble the after market face plate mounting system and the wiring of the new unit specifically the wire color coding.

But some things that I am basically familiar with, I read the instructions after the fact! :)
 
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