Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

[dylanc0100]

kwl man ag ya i have a frinds thats whantsto go water but he has 3 way sli

 

[4Ryan6]

ok guys if i take pump that pushes out 1200 lph and i put a y joint on it and i puit one gpu on the one side and on the other side a cpu and then a rad on that after the cpu and gpu and then in to a nother rad the in to a res and then back in to the pump will it be to much and then heat wont sisapate

First off I agree with nathan92.

Secondly I see where you're going with this but you need to realize the CPU water block is the most restrictive, which means the majority of your flow will take the path of least resistance and you may not be getting the flow you need through the CPU water block.

Once again I'm referring you to what I originally told you.

First of all if you've read through this thread from the beginning you're not asking a traditional radiator water cooler these questions however after looking at your thread link here's some advice for you to consider.

Overclocking has everything to do with end cooling performance results, many are under the delusion that water cooling will solve your heat problems produced from overclocking when in fact traditional water cooling using radiators is still under the mercy of ambient room temperature.

The additional overclocking load temperature has to be dissipated which means you have to have more radiator area to handle it, many think these handy dandy kits are going to be a resolution cure all when in all actuality they're far from it, understand I'm sharing what I have learned the hard way so you can glean what you want from it, don't expect me to give you a buy list.

Loop wise you only need two loops when you run more than one graphics card running full coverage water blocks, as full coverage water blocks are also cooling the voltage regulators and memory chips and they add heat to the loop too.

I would recommend a GPU loop with full coverage water blocks with 2 GPUs on a minimum of a quad 120 radiator and even that much radiator space is still limited when you overclock the GPUs but you can still enjoy load temperatures around 35c below the stock GPU air cooling.

I am basing that statement on my present GPU cooling setup and performance level of running two 580GTX in SLI with full coverage water blocks.

Radiator cooling IMO is the best route to take cooling GPUs, the most direct advantage results are clearly obvious by water cooling GPUs especially with full coverage water blocks, giving you the advantage of overclocking even overvolting without worry.

CPU overclocking with todays CPUs have reached heat levels that have to be compensated for and CLC water coolers and low end and mid range water cooling kit levels are no better cooling options than the High end Air Coolers.

A kit may seem to be the way to go as they are priced attractively but usually end up only having pieces of the kit reusable down the road when you discover the kits limitations when it comes to overclocking the CPU.

My best advice is research yourself and avoid someone else recommendations of this is the kit for you, as 9 times out of 10, overclocking wise they're clueless, or don't really want you to make a better purchasing decision because misery loves company.

No matter what you decide to cool if you'll be going the traditional radiator cooling route, it is imperative you have enough radiator area to cool with, the size of the radiator has everything to do with the end cooling performance especially in an overclocking environment.

A 120, or 240, or 360, or 480, single radiator has only so much cooling capability even the differing FPI ratings all have limitations, and once you pass those limitations, the radiator just cannot do any more for you.

I hope you got something out of this, Good Luck! Ryan

You'll get a lot of advice out here regarding water cooling what you need to discover is why are they water cooling in the first place?

Many water cool simply for show and those water coolers could care less about temperatures, or how their loop is setup, their advice is totally relevant to their cooling reasons and some want everything crammed inside the case, and are totally happy as long as they can still get the side panel back on.

Then as an after thought they may consider overclocking because they have the cure all of cooling and discover the true discovery shock, that they're no better off than Big Air Cooling would have delivered and they've spent 4 times as much.

Spending money on water cooling is almost an addiction, especially if it is fulfilling your desires, if show is your desire then you're a happy camper even when your load temperatures are in the upper 80c bracket, but if overclocking performance is your goal and you end up in the 80c load bracket, you should be seriously disappointed!

Because you have wasted a lot of money!

Those that water cool for overclocking performance look for every tweak possible to maximize their cooling performance, what some disregard as being irrelevant others have discovered is not irrelevant at all.

You've never stated your water cooling intentions, if you're just after pretty, and ohh and ahh from your friends, you're in the wrong thread.

I personally would not setup your loop as you've described and I think from what I have already shared with you, it should be obvious as to why.

 

[4Ryan6]

Update:

I replaced my GPU RadBox setup with a Watercool MO-RA3 and mounted it to the back side panel of the TecBox, the 2 580GTX with full coverage Heat Killer water blocks are now being cooled with the MO-RA3.

I did not take as you go installation pictures because that would have seriously slowed the installation as once I had this massive radiator in hand, I was like a kid with a toy on Christmas, I wanted to get it installed!

The MO-RA3 is a massive radiator, it is 15" wide, 16 1/2" high, and 2 1/2" thick, copper tube construction making 4 complete tubing passes through the fin field.

To save me some typing here's a quote from the website.

MO-RA3

The MO-RA3 represents an uncompromising improvement of the successful MO-RA2. Its cooling performance has been increased, even above that of the powerful predecessor. More than 28 meters of tubing and 2.5 square meters of fins speak for themselves. The cooling fluid now flows in a four-time parallel layout through 72 tubes. The fins of the MO-RA3 have been optimized specifically for low-rpm fans. Their enormous surface and effective geometry guarantee excellent cooling performance. The highly parallel layout and the new flow-optimized connection block ensure a low flow-resistance, despite the large size of the heat-exchanger. The connection block improves flexibility as well by providing G1/4“ threads in three directions. Integrated M3 threads allow mounting of up to nine fans per side (not on the MO-RA3 Core LC). Additional threads are integrated for accessories. The MO-RA3 is shipped ready to use. This includes G1/4“ sealing plugs for unused threads, screws for fans, and spacers for mounting it onto a case. The modular accessories of the Mo-RA3 allow for easy customization. Select from various grills, fan controllers, feet, and external mounting brackets. The MO-RA3 is produced in Europe. Development and final assembly happen in Germany, like the manufacturing of most of its components.

I purchased the 4 x 180mm, allowing me to run 180mm cooling fans, they are much quieter than the 5, 120mm, 2,000rpm fans that were being used on the RadBox, the MO-RA3 has out performed the RadBox by 5c.

My graphics load does not go above 40c, the RadBox allowed it to get to 45c, and 40c is half of the stock air coolers temperature of 80c, thanks to the 180mm fans the loudest thing in my office now is the air conditioner.

Here are some pictures of the finished installation.

The MO-RA3 comes with 4 case mounting 3/4" standoffs, but I wanted more clearance than that, so I opted for the mounting brackets which are 1 1/4" off the case for more airflow.

The Reservoir is a Bitspower Water Tank Z-Multi 400, also 4 Alphacool Angled Adapters double 45s, revolvable.

The pump is a Swiftech MCP655 variable speed.

Additionally I am using 4 180mm Phobya 20mm clear plexi fan shrouds, 4 180mm x 32mm Silverstone FM181
High Performance Fans, and 4 Silverstone 180mm wire fan grills.

 

[rubix_1011]

I like the look of that MO-RA...good looking mount and nice to see the temp drop over the rad box. How do you feel your overall GPU loop flow is going with the MO-RA vs the radbox config?

I like my Bitspower z-multi...very good little res's that you can simply update by buying a different cylinder.

 

[4Ryan6]

The flow through the MO-RA3 is kinda surprising, very little flow restriction, I guess the round tubes account for that, I'm running the MCP655 on 3 and getting the temps I shared.

Overall I'm very pleased, when I first got my hands on the radiator the size of it was very impressive, even though I knew it's dimensions before hand, to actually see it is a pleasant surprise, the quality and detail is amazing.

I did not realize that the Watercool company was the same company that made the Heatkiller water blocks, so I learned something in this adventure, and their products are working together in this setup.

The Bitspower Z-Multi reservoir is very nice, a higher quality product than I was expecting, but definitely on the same quality level of everything I've purchased with their name on it.

This setup has given me back some desk top space, runs quieter, performs better, and looks great.

 

[4745454b]

and looks great.

I was going to say the same thing. Looks like nice piece of equipment. MUCH better then an igloo cooler... 😀

 

[4Ryan6]

and looks great.

I was going to say the same thing. Looks like nice piece of equipment. MUCH better then an igloo cooler... 😀

It's come a long way since this thread was opened!

 

[nathann92]

I have to agree with everyone else here that rad and mounting likes nice haven't seen any setups that look that good yet.

Finally did some testing on my project it's hard when you only get a couple of hours a week. Cold side is around 7 degrees with TEC on for a few min so might get colder and heat side is 52 degrees Celsius. Ill start a thread soon with pictures.

 

[4Ryan6]

Thanks nathan92!

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Yup, I had seen the Mora update man and was pleased to see it, I would go for the 4x180's myself for the same reasons, slower quieter fans
Not a lot happening my end at the moment Pc-wise but I'm still watching the forums to make sure cables are neat enough hehe
@Nathann, glad to see you getting some fruit from your labour mate, are glad you got into this now?
or have you realised what a slippery slope you've gotten onto hehe
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Yup, I had seen the Mora update man and was pleased to see it, I would go for the 4x180's myself for the same reasons, slower quieter fans
Not a lot happening my end at the moment Pc-wise but I'm still watching the forums to make sure cables are neat enough hehe
@Nathann, glad to see you getting some fruit from your labour mate, are glad you got into this now?
or have you realised what a slippery slope you've gotten onto hehe
Moto

Hello Moto!

Since the beginnings of my water cooling days there has been many purchases I've regretted making, because higher overclocking goals have always been my reasoning for water cooling in the first place.

There have also been purchases I was not only pleased with, but pleased enough to buy again if needed, like for instance the Swiftech MCP655 variable speed pump, an excellent piece of water cooling hardware, but it still had to stand the test of time, as it is literally the pumping heart of the system.

The Watercool MO-RA3 radiator had me 100% satisfied pulling it out of the box, the quality is exceptional, the design and build of it is exactly what I would have requested if I had the input on it's design, not the first leak, very unrestricted flow for such a huge radiator, yielding excellent cooling performance, and It looks great mounted.

No regrets with this purchase Moto!

The TecBox, IMO, is functioning perfectly, I have it setup so that one peltier runs when the computer runs, and no matter what my ambient room temperature is, my reservoir water temperature is 7c ~ 8c below ambient, without my office air conditioner even running.

The only time the 2nd peltier assembly is even energized (Toggle Switch Controlled), is gaming, and that allows a full gaming load from 10c ~ 12c water temperature in the reservoir, and that's 11c ~ 13c, below a 23c ambient which is usually where I keep my office temperature in the Summer.

The GPUs are totally handled by the MO-RA3 with the 180mm cooling fans, and you can barely even hear the four of them running, which yields a 40c stock clocked gaming load on both GPUs, and that's a 40c drop from the stock 580GTX air coolers.

That MO-RA3 allows a 972mhz GPU overclock with zero problems and about a 45c gaming load, still 35c below stock air cooling, and no office air conditioning running either!

So basically the entire setup has become an overclock of choice setup whether CPU, or GPU, or both!

I can overclock the CPU to 5ghz, all 4 cores, running both peltiers and complete IBT at 58c hottest core temperature, at a 10c water reservoir temperature, not bad on any day!

Additionally at a 10c water reservoir temperature there is no condensation to deal with!

Condensation is not a concern at all until I start going below 8c water temperature!

I'm not trying to brag or anything but this TecBox cooling is worth bragging about, it is a full accomplishment of every goal I had when I first entertained peltier cooling possibly replacing the ice in the cooler, which started this thread.

I hope soon you'll be able to resume your Chillerbox project, because your discoveries are important information to share, but I do understand there are more important things you need to take care of before that project ever resumes!

It was exciting for me learning of your discoveries, you are one of the few at THGF that may possibly think I have not lost my mind in exploring these cooling possibilities, as there may be sideline flag wavers here at THGF, but almost zero actual doers!

Talk is cheap, anyone can do that, but talk plus action = Results!

Results can be shared and acted upon!

New cooling possibilities have to be experimented with, or else we learn nothing, and are forced to accept the way things are when there are better cooling performing possibilities!

I have begun branching out to other websites and sharing my discoveries in hopes to gain further input and maybe find others that appreciate these discovery efforts as apparently even this present cooling solution I am running as successful as it is, seems to be a irrelevant concern to this website.

As for my setup my present plans are to run it for awhile and see how the peltier assemblies do over time, meaning that they remain dependable, I do have some ideas to test in the future but as good as this setup is presently running, I truly hate to even mess with it.

I hope all is well with you and yours mate! Ry

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Aah, the freedom good cooling allows us,
for laymen, that means we aren't restricted by temp limits, its only hardware limits that get in the way 😛
I've not been on here much lately as you've noticed Ry but I have been watching this amongst a few select other threads just to keep my eye on folks 😛
I'm adding archery to my play list now as well, damn, why don't I ever find cheap pastimes? 😛
Bikes the priority atm though, she need new piston ring, cam tensioners and may as well do a valve service whilst apart, £1600 🙁
savings going well though so hopefully back on the road in time for snow fun
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

I'm adding archery to my play list now as well, damn, why don't I ever find cheap pastimes? 😛

I've been looking into that as well, been researching the various bows trying to decide which route I want to take the traditional curve or the compound bow.

Bows today even the traditional curve are so far advanced and some serious hardware.

Are you considering a bow for hunting or target shooting?

Crossbows?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

We can't hunt legally over here, its against the law to aim at any living thing
I would be target/field shooting but you know me, its just another skill for the zombie apocalypse
not for killing zombies you understand, but I wouldn't be worried about getting arrested for hunting food in those cirumstances
I'm looking at takedown recurves mostly, I love the old longbows but like the upgradeability/versatility of takedowns and compounds to me are cheating hehe, some things I prefer basic without a ton of toys attached
Moto

 

[4745454b]

Crossbows are cheating. There shouldn't be a trigger on a bow. A nice solid Compound is nice, though you need to have some strength to pull either.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

We went to pay up for our places on the beginners course yesterday and had a sneaky draw, my other half is happy at 20Lb (Medical restrictions)
and I had a draw of the chairmans 36Lb beast, easily pullable and I think I'm going to be ending up around 45-50Lb once my body is used to things, crossbows aren't even in my field of vision hehe, they are more gun than bow to me
Compounds although nice techy toys, they aren't real bows either to me, I'm just oldfashioned some ways
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

We went to pay up for our places on the beginners course yesterday and had a sneaky draw, my other half is happy at 20Lb (Medical restrictions)
and I had a draw of the chairmans 36Lb beast, easily pullable and I think I'm going to be ending up around 45-50Lb once my body is used to things, crossbows aren't even in my field of vision hehe, they are more gun than bow to me
Compounds although nice techy toys, they aren't real bows either to me, I'm just oldfashioned some ways
Moto

Yeah I'm leaning toward the recurve bow as well!

Changing the subject back on topic;

I know that your chillbox plans are on the back burner, but how do you intend to proceed with your project, when you can?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Shrinking it as you did
We've discussed a possible option in Pm's and I'm inclined to work that through, Cpu on its own and the cards will stay on the radbox for a spell, ain't broke don't fix ethos there
I reckon upping the Tec and lowering the volume will be the outline for the Cpu loop though, keeping a mass insulated and cool enough is like
eating Ice planets, I.e. 'Problematic' hehe
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Crossbows are cheating. There shouldn't be a trigger on a bow. A nice solid Compound is nice, though you need to have some strength to pull either.

Congrats on the moderator position!

 

[4745454b]

😀 Thank you. Must say it's nice to kill the spam directly instead of hitting report.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Yup, kudos man, well earned I reckon too
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Yup, kudos man, well earned I reckon too
Moto

You never said how she liked the Katana?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Aah, sorry man, I never linked any pics either because she hasn't sent me them, and I can't take any
She loves it though, her face just lit up when she walked into the kitchen and it was sat there on a stand, but I made her sit through a presentation ceremony before offering it to her care,
Best. present. ever.
were her words I believe and I got several texts over the next few weeks saying 'I've got a Katana!'
its a great feeling making someone else happy
Moto

 

[toolmaker_03]

I must say this rig has evolved into one wicked looking machine, and it runs great too.
Does it ever end? Or like mine, will the build continue to evolve as the years continue on?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

I found some Sword pics on my phone Ry, want them in here or Pm?
Moto