Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[jimmysmitty]

Yeah, the root problem is we really can't shrink Silicon based chips anymore. Intel thinks they can do 7nm, if they build in redundancy (which means the chips will be VERY space ineffective, expensive to produce, and not very profitable). Point is, unless a replacement is found within the next few years, we're two die shrinks (about 5-6 years) from hitting a brick wall, and we go from 10% yearly CPU performance improvements, to 0% yearly CPU performance improvements.

Its those brick walls that force innovation. I don't recall that many issues at 7nm. IBM was saying the real hurdles will arrive below the 5nm level.

Anyway the 3D packaging and 450mm wafers will add significantly to the improvements. The surface has only been scratched there. Hardware is known to fail for some time. Higher end systems have repair capabilities in place already for RAM, drive, and CPU cores. Economies of scale will drive those features into everyday consumer products.

The tools are constantly improving to better plan for those failures as well.

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/5085-finfet-reliability-analysis-device-self-heating.html

450mm wafers wont help on process size but will increase cores per wafer and increase profits.

3D will help to add cores/cache etc but again not the process.

Intel never said they can't do Silicon at 7nm just that they do not plan to due to the issues they have already run into on 14nm and 10nm with Silicon (parasitic capacitance for example) due to Silicon being stretched to its limits. IBM has a 7nm process but had to move to Silicon-Germanium to do it.

Within the next few years Silicon will probably start being used less in consumer processors.

 

[Guest]

are we hitting a wall in terms of cpu improvement?

 

[fudgecakes99]

are we hitting a wall in terms of cpu improvement?

i'd say relatively. we have. Theirs going to be a point where we can't shrink any further. With a specific material, we need to find a different material, or instead of building down build up. Plus you know quantum computing making some headway, so theirs that.

http://www.techinsider.io/microsoft-hybrid-quantum-computer-2015-10

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Intel can't simply stay at 7nm forever though. If Moore's Law holds true, they're going to run out of room for more transistors on 7nm and will have to start increasing the size to fit more transistors. Transistors also can't be too flimsy, at least in my head if they are they could easily be broken, whether by gravitation force or whatever. Moore's law is beginning to fail, I can already see it. It has held true for decades, but that will change...

 

[jdwii]

^^ my guess we will have to start using external servers if we need more power which is why i think X86 might go away one day if its being used for pure brute force.

Server farms might have to take over my guess is the amount of power in each individual PC won't see major changes after 7nm.

 

[gamerk316]

Any improvements would be architectural. You'd also see GPUs become a LOT more important, as those can still shrink for another decade, so you'll see more offloading then you do now.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Intel can't simply stay at 7nm forever though. If Moore's Law holds true, they're going to run out of room for more transistors on 7nm and will have to start increasing the size to fit more transistors. Transistors also can't be too flimsy, at least in my head if they are they could easily be broken, whether by gravitation force or whatever. Moore's law is beginning to fail, I can already see it. It has held true for decades, but that will change...

You are forgetting stacking. That can easily add more transistors to a CPU.

Intel is not planning on staying at 7nm either. There is a reason why they have been the #1 in Fabrication for so long, they start working on these issues years ahead and I am pretty sure they have been working on the issue with Silicon hitting its limits for quite a while, hence why they went to a HK/MG design starting at 45nm.

 

[Vogner16]

any news on graphene use from intel? they have to be thinking of some new ideas for materials. universities are looking for replacements. (hi all first time in this thread the amd one seems to be broken)

 

[gamerk316]

any news on graphene use from intel? they have to be thinking of some new ideas for materials. universities are looking for replacements. (hi all first time in this thread the amd one seems to be broken)

As mentioned before, other materials like Black Phosphorous are currently getting more attention. For all it's properties, the lack of a usable band gap makes graphene not the best material to work with. I'm sure they'll figure something out though.

 

[con635]

are we hitting a wall in terms of cpu improvement?

The 'moar coars for cannon lake' story and poor ipc increases recently seem to suggest that, yes.

 

[Vogner16]

any news on graphene use from intel? they have to be thinking of some new ideas for materials. universities are looking for replacements. (hi all first time in this thread the amd one seems to be broken)

As mentioned before, other materials like Black Phosphorous are currently getting more attention. For all it's properties, the lack of a usable band gap makes graphene not the best material to work with. I'm sure they'll figure something out though.

that's what I read didn't know if there were improvements. appears not. until then 2.5% ipc incoming!

 

[logainofhades]

Intel finally has listed their full lineup of Skylake, E3 Xeon's, and has their status marked as launched. Hopefully we shall be seeing them soon. I really want a mini-itx gaming/folding rig. Hopefully that is something I can manage early next year.

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/88047/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1200-v5-Product-Family#@All

 

[Vogner16]

I don't think id make a mini itx gaming rig with any of those.($200+) they have a lot of nice i3's and i5's for less and that use less power. (heat is a big deal in mini itx)

 

[jimmysmitty]

I don't think id make a mini itx gaming rig with any of those.($200+) they have a lot of nice i3's and i5's for less and that use less power. (heat is a big deal in mini itx)

There are plenty of cases for mini ITX that can deal with the heat. Hell Corsair has a mini ITX case that can fit a H100i and full length GPU.

 

[logainofhades]

I don't think id make a mini itx gaming rig with any of those.($200+) they have a lot of nice i3's and i5's for less and that use less power. (heat is a big deal in mini itx)

An i3 or i5 will not be suitable for what I want to do. Heat won't be much of an issue, I don't think, as I plan on using something like a coolermaster elite 130, with a Nepton 120xl. Also Xeon E'3 tend to have a lower TDP than even an i5, as they lack igp. 😉

 

[Vogner16]

an i3 would work great with a 380 or 960. save you about $100 over one of those E3's you linked. E3's have 80W tdp unless you get a L version that has essentially a laptop TDP. Some (most) of those new E3's actually did have igpu just sayin.

jimmy I did see that the corsair 250D had watercooler support but I consider those types of ITX computers as more like ATX bricks as they are quite large really. when I think mini itx I think xbox one size case something really tiny and thin like that new raven case I saw on toms case reviews page. you need some kind of exotic style case to fit that Xeon into a little case. I think noctua had something new out that could cool 130W with a profile that matches the stock intel cooler using vapor chambers or something so there are options to cool it but it will cost a lot more end of the day.

Its like picking a fury nano. cost the same as a fury x but slower than a fury. why? to fit into tiny mini itx cases. price jumps a lot.

 

[logainofhades]

Why would I downgrade, to an i3 and a 380/960, when I have a 3570k/770 now? I want to replace my current system with a Gaming and Folding Mini-ITX. Only those ending in 5, instead of 0, have IGP. That is nothing new. Most likely I would go with a 1230v5. I have no need for IGP, ever. I have spare GPU's in the event mine croaks, that can still handle WoW, and GW2.

 

[Vogner16]

I assumed you would be building a HTPC style computer with mini itx as most do in that form factor for reasons we all know. I have to ask then if you have 3570k /770 why upgrade at all? maybe get a new gpu but you wont see much improvement from a 1230 in games like wow and GW2 infact not even a gpu upgrade will give you any meaningful improvement.

only reason to do it would be "just cause"

EDIT: This isn't Intel news... unless im stating I don't see these new chips to be very useful as they are already available in the I series.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I assumed you would be building a HTPC style computer with mini itx as most do in that form factor for reasons we all know. I have to ask then if you have 3570k /770 why upgrade at all? maybe get a new gpu but you wont see much improvement from a 1230 in games like wow and GW2 infact not even a gpu upgrade will give you any meaningful improvement.

only reason to do it would be "just cause"

EDIT: This isn't Intel news... unless im stating I don't see these new chips to be very useful as they are already available in the I series.

Actually a GPU upgrade for him would improve GW2. I had a HD7970GHz (around the same performance as a 770
) and it would lag in the more heavily played world bosses (normally the Daily ones). I went to a GTX 980Ti and at the same resolution and settings I see a big performance improvement, even at the Claw of Jormag I don;t get lag now.

 

[logainofhades]

I assumed you would be building a HTPC style computer with mini itx as most do in that form factor for reasons we all know. I have to ask then if you have 3570k /770 why upgrade at all? maybe get a new gpu but you wont see much improvement from a 1230 in games like wow and GW2 infact not even a gpu upgrade will give you any meaningful improvement.

only reason to do it would be "just cause"

EDIT: This isn't Intel news... unless im stating I don't see these new chips to be very useful as they are already available in the I series.

I need a smaller system, that can easily fit on my desk, as I need the extra room. I am not looking at improvements in gaming, cpu side. You keep ignoring the folding side of my upgrade intention. The extra threads, of the Xeon, would be superior to the higher clock speed of my 3570k. The extra 200mhz boost, of the i7 6700 vs the 1230v5, is not worth $50. Unless microcenter throws one hell of a deal out there, I am planning around a Xeon, for a future upgrade. Also, have a friend, if I can get the money in time, that is going to sell me a 780ti, so my GPU upgrade will be taken care of.

 

[honkuimushi]

I need a smaller system, that can easily fit on my desk, as I need the extra room. I am not looking at improvements in gaming, cpu side. You keep ignoring the folding side of my upgrade intention. The extra threads, of the Xeon, would be superior to the higher clock speed of my 3570k. The extra 200mhz boost, of the i7 6700 vs the 1230v5, is not worth $50. Unless microcenter throws one hell of a deal out there, I am planning around a Xeon, for a future upgrade. Also, have a friend, if I can get the money in time, that is going to sell me a 780ti, so my GPU upgrade will be taken care of.

It looks like the Skylake Xeons have been locked so they won't work in Z170, H170, B150 or H110 boards. You have to go with the C 230 series boards to use them. So you may want to consider an alternate plan.

 

[Vogner16]

I need a smaller system, that can easily fit on my desk, as I need the extra room. I am not looking at improvements in gaming, cpu side. You keep ignoring the folding side of my upgrade intention. The extra threads, of the Xeon, would be superior to the higher clock speed of my 3570k. The extra 200mhz boost, of the i7 6700 vs the 1230v5, is not worth $50. Unless microcenter throws one hell of a deal out there, I am planning around a Xeon, for a future upgrade. Also, have a friend, if I can get the money in time, that is going to sell me a 780ti, so my GPU upgrade will be taken care of.

It looks like the Skylake Xeons have been locked so they won't work in Z170, H170, B150 or H110 boards. You have to go with the C 230 series boards to use them. So you may want to consider an alternate plan.

you know I saw this somewhere but I doubted it. do you have a link?

 

[logainofhades]

wccftech I saw posted that, and they are about as reliable as a rusty chevrolet.

 

[honkuimushi]

you know I saw this somewhere but I doubted it. do you have a link?

You might find this more reliable.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9730/intel-launches-greenlow-c236-chipset-and-skylake-e31200-v5-xeons
Look just below the specification chart.

It seems that a German site is the original source.

 

[jimmysmitty]

you know I saw this somewhere but I doubted it. do you have a link?

You might find this more reliable.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9730/intel-launches-greenlow-c236-chipset-and-skylake-e31200-v5-xeons
Look just below the specification chart.

It seems that a German site is the original source.

If you read the quote from Intel it has been that way for all their Xeons. They have never validated Xeons for consumer chipsets, they were always meant to be used with the C series chipsets. That does not mean that Z170 will not run a Xeon but that it does not officially support a Xeon nor did the Z97 chipset or Z87 chipset.

As well thew C series chipsets are the same as the consumer side but they are designed to support all the features of Xeons that consumer SKU CPUs do not have.