Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[juanrga]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

 

[FullmetalJacket]

SSDs don't bottle neck system,s. Very Very rarely is your CPU waiting for information from the hard drive even the fastest NVMe M.2 drives don't make any difference to windows load times as windows also cant keep up.It also makes no difference to any other calculation or function being run ,I don't where you got that idea from and If you can give me any examples where that applies ,I would be very surprised ,The limiting factors in a system are the Cpu and Gpu and to a lesser extent the chip set's , other than that hard drives and Ram, feed up enough ones and zeros for these components to struggle chewing through. Hence the of hyper threading and the like to reduce the choke points and get it calculated and through the cores.

 

[Gon Freecss]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

 

[juanrga]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

 

[Gon Freecss]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

Coffee Lake has less IPC than Skylake? Doubtful. At the very least, it would have the same IPC, but I think Intel have managed to increase IPC on Coffee Lake.

If the rumored higher-core Ryzen parts are real, then that might end up lowering the price of the higher-end Intel processors. 16 cores/32 threads for only $1000 is a bargain.

 

[jwcrellin]

Coffee lake is an evolution in power efficiency not raw performance.

 

[juanrga]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

Coffee Lake has less IPC than Skylake? Doubtful. At the very least, it would have the same IPC, but I think Intel have managed to increase IPC on Coffee Lake.

If the rumored higher-core Ryzen parts are real, then that might end up lowering the price of the higher-end Intel processors. 16 cores/32 threads for only $1000 is a bargain.

CoffeLake has same IPC than Kabylake and Skylake. The difference is on clocks. Skylake used 14nm, Kabylake got higher clocks by using 14nm+ and CanonLake uses the new 14nm++ to get still higher clocks.

On the other hand, Skylake-X is a different microarchitecture than Skylake. Skylake-X adds 512bit supports and the cache hierarchy changes a lot of. E.g. the L2 cache increases from 256KB to 1MB. This will bring significant IPC changes for workloads sensible to L2 size.

I think that 16C RyZen will probably lose to the 10C SKL-X on many cases.

 

[Gon Freecss]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

Coffee Lake has less IPC than Skylake? Doubtful. At the very least, it would have the same IPC, but I think Intel have managed to increase IPC on Coffee Lake.

If the rumored higher-core Ryzen parts are real, then that might end up lowering the price of the higher-end Intel processors. 16 cores/32 threads for only $1000 is a bargain.

CoffeLake has same IPC than Kabylake and Skylake. The difference is on clocks. Skylake used 14nm, Kabylake got higher clocks by using 14nm+ and CanonLake uses the new 14nm++ to get still higher clocks.

On the other hand, Skylake-X is a different microarchitecture than Skylake. Skylake-X adds 512bit supports and the cache hierarchy changes a lot of. E.g. the L2 cache increases from 256KB to 1MB. This will bring significant IPC changes for workloads sensible to L2 size.

I think that 16C RyZen will probably lose to the 10C SKL-X on many cases.

Are you sure? I thought they were going to increase IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

Yeah, that's going to be crazy man.

That's like 32 threads vs 20. In most multi-threaded workload, Ryzen should get the win.

 

[juanrga]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

Coffee Lake has less IPC than Skylake? Doubtful. At the very least, it would have the same IPC, but I think Intel have managed to increase IPC on Coffee Lake.

If the rumored higher-core Ryzen parts are real, then that might end up lowering the price of the higher-end Intel processors. 16 cores/32 threads for only $1000 is a bargain.

CoffeLake has same IPC than Kabylake and Skylake. The difference is on clocks. Skylake used 14nm, Kabylake got higher clocks by using 14nm+ and CanonLake uses the new 14nm++ to get still higher clocks.

On the other hand, Skylake-X is a different microarchitecture than Skylake. Skylake-X adds 512bit supports and the cache hierarchy changes a lot of. E.g. the L2 cache increases from 256KB to 1MB. This will bring significant IPC changes for workloads sensible to L2 size.

I think that 16C RyZen will probably lose to the 10C SKL-X on many cases.

Are you sure? I thought they were going to increase IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

Yeah, that's going to be crazy man.

That's like 32 threads vs 20. In most multi-threaded workload, Ryzen should get the win.

Intel abandoned the Tick-tock model time ago. It is now architecture --> process optimization --> process optimization.

CoffeeLake CPU has same IPC than Skylake and Kabylake. The difference is on clocks.


The 10C SKL-X will surely lose on throughput-optimized workloads like Blender, Handbrake,... but will surely win on everything else, specially on AVX512 workloads.

 

[jimmysmitty]

However the biggest improvements now and for a while, I say 2-3 generations, will be around the CPU. CPUs on both ends have hit a wall. I see people predicting AMDs next CPU will be a big boost but I think we will wee similar returns as what Intel is getting. However the platform around it can improve. Hell the biggest bottleneck is still storage. Even the fastest SSD (Samsung 960) is not nearly as fast as the rest of the components.

*cough* HDD speeds are exactly why we attempt to pre-load as much as we can into main system memory. And slow main system memory is why we keep cramming more and more cache directly on the CPU. There's only so much you can do in that area.

Which is why even though the first iteration of Optane is meh I am excited that Intel is starting to push it out. When NVDIMMs become a viable storage solution that could easily solve a lot of our bottleneck issues with storage and the best part is that it will grow with the CPU as the faster the CPUs memory controller is, the faster the storage will be.

The Athlon had 600MB/s bandwidth in memory in 2001. It is high time we erase storage bottlenecks.

Optane really isn't going to move the needle much. You still have relatively slow HDDs compared to main memory; there's a reason we pre-load as much as possible.

Now yes, Optane and other tech would help this pre-load process out a TON (and I'm speaking as someone who's played DA:I, and had 2-3 minute wait periods on area transitions; stupid 7200k RPM HDD...), but actual in-game performance impact is basically nil; everything you need should already be in main memory at that point.[/quotemsg]

If Intel is able to successfully implement large enough sizes into NVDIMMs, like say we can push 512GB and split it, than we can easily stop the need for pre-loading.

Of course it will take time as with SSDs it will be very expensive to start but it is the eventuality of where storage has to go as even M.2 has shown it still is not nearly as fast as everything else.

 

[Gon Freecss]

Take this with a grain of salt, but it is coming from someone that I think is well-informed

CFL-S 6C/12T 350$
SKL-X 6C/12T ~440$
SKL-X 8C/16T ~620$
SKL-X 10C/20T ~1100$
SKL-X 12C/24T ~A lot

The 6 core Skylake-X processor is redundant. If you want a 6 core processor, then go for the cheaper one that has higher IPC. If you want more cores, then jump on the high-end platform.

Also, do you think the 16 core Ryzen processor would impact the price of the 10C and 12C Intel processors?

The cheaper one has lower IPC, but yes there is some overlap between CanonLake and Skylake-X. We have still to wait for full specs, but probable CannonLake was the preferred option for gamers and Skylake-X was the preferred option for professionals.

I guess the above pricing already considers competition. See also

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/paul-taylor/amds-ryzen-has-not-brought-the-price-wars-we-all-wantedneeded/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3193149/computers/intel-projects-decline-in-chip-prices-and-amds-ryzen-is-one-reason.html

Coffee Lake has less IPC than Skylake? Doubtful. At the very least, it would have the same IPC, but I think Intel have managed to increase IPC on Coffee Lake.

If the rumored higher-core Ryzen parts are real, then that might end up lowering the price of the higher-end Intel processors. 16 cores/32 threads for only $1000 is a bargain.

CoffeLake has same IPC than Kabylake and Skylake. The difference is on clocks. Skylake used 14nm, Kabylake got higher clocks by using 14nm+ and CanonLake uses the new 14nm++ to get still higher clocks.

On the other hand, Skylake-X is a different microarchitecture than Skylake. Skylake-X adds 512bit supports and the cache hierarchy changes a lot of. E.g. the L2 cache increases from 256KB to 1MB. This will bring significant IPC changes for workloads sensible to L2 size.

I think that 16C RyZen will probably lose to the 10C SKL-X on many cases.

Are you sure? I thought they were going to increase IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

Yeah, that's going to be crazy man.

That's like 32 threads vs 20. In most multi-threaded workload, Ryzen should get the win.

Intel abandoned the Tick-tock model time ago. It is now architecture --> process optimization --> process optimization.

CoffeeLake CPU has same IPC than Skylake and Kabylake. The difference is on clocks.


The 10C SKL-X will surely lose on throughput-optimized workloads like Blender, Handbrake,... but will surely win on everything else, specially on AVX512 workloads.

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

 

[YoAndy]

Where is DDR5? Have anyone heard anything about intel bringing ddr5?

 

[jimmysmitty]

Where is DDR5? Have anyone heard anything about intel bringing ddr5?

DDR5? DDR4 is barely gaining mainstream adoption now thanks to AMD finally catching up.

The earliest I see DDR5 being possible is 2018, per their own road map, which would mean either Icelake or Cannonlake-X would have it, most likely it would be an -X lineup first as it was with DDR4.

 

[YoAndy]

Where is DDR5? Have anyone heard anything about intel bringing ddr5?

DDR5? DDR4 is barely gaining mainstream adoption now thanks to AMD finally catching up.

The earliest I see DDR5 being possible is 2018, per their own road map, which would mean either Icelake or Cannonlake-X would have it, most likely it would be an -X lineup first as it was with DDR4.

We had it for quite a while now, AMD is just miles behind

 

[juanrga]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

 

[8350rocks]

Where is DDR5? Have anyone heard anything about intel bringing ddr5?

DDR5? DDR4 is barely gaining mainstream adoption now thanks to AMD finally catching up.

The earliest I see DDR5 being possible is 2018, per their own road map, which would mean either Icelake or Cannonlake-X would have it, most likely it would be an -X lineup first as it was with DDR4.

We had it for quite a while now, AMD is just miles behind

Considering the spec for DDR5 was filed by JEDEC ~8 months ago...it will be at minimum late 2018, and even then...that is being incredibly optimistic.

 

[8350rocks]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

Yeah, that will put it at same clocks as stock 16c Ryzen.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Where is DDR5? Have anyone heard anything about intel bringing ddr5?

DDR5? DDR4 is barely gaining mainstream adoption now thanks to AMD finally catching up.

The earliest I see DDR5 being possible is 2018, per their own road map, which would mean either Icelake or Cannonlake-X would have it, most likely it would be an -X lineup first as it was with DDR4.

We had it for quite a while now, AMD is just miles behind

Enthusiast have yes. But it still takes both sides before adoption is full enough to be considered.

We have had DDR4 since the X99 chipset which launched in 2014. However the first use of mainstream DDR4 was not until a year later, 2015. We have had mainstream use with Skylake and up of DDR4 for 2 years.

To show how it normally is we have had DDR3 since 2008 with Intels 4 series chipsets in June of 2008. The 4 series chipsets were both mainstream and enthusiast until Intel launches the X58 chipset on LGA1366 in November of 2008 so its adoption was much faster although AMD still lagged behind. However if we use the mainstream as a guide, DDR3 was mainstream until 2015 giving it a life cycle of 7 years.

I highly doubt DDR4 would be out in 2 years of mainstream use, especially since a lot of people are still on DDR3 as a lot of people still have Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge/Haswell/Devils Canyon or AMDs FX/Athlon series.

Plus again, per JEDEC who designs the DDR spec, 2018 is when the official spec should launch which would probably put another year before Intel implements it, I assume Intel will adopt it first on a X platform and AMD will follow after Intel also launches it on a mainstream platform.

https://techreport.com/news/31673/ddr5-will-boost-bandwidth-and-lower-power-consumption

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

I don't see why not. And normally desktop platforms tend to get a higher clock since servers are not as worried about clock speed as they are designed around the TDP.

 

[FullmetalJacket]

So you guys think that usb 3.1 type c will take a larger role in upcoming platforms?

If I were a gambling man, I would advise you not to hold your breath for 3.1 type C to catch on. The main draw right now is for charging mobile devices more quickly...not much else. Regular USB 3.2 is likely going to be the way forward, and there are already USB specs that match thunderbolt for bandwidth without the proprietary schtick to go with TB, they just are not mainstream yet.

Totally agree and a hell of a lot of people eg Linus Paul Jay etc in the computer know have said the same things in videos review and opinion

 

[juanrga]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

I don't see why not. And normally desktop platforms tend to get a higher clock since servers are not as worried about clock speed as they are designed around the TDP.

10C Broadwell for server 3.1/3.8GHz <----> 10C Broadwell for desktop 3.0/3.5GHz.
12C Skylake for server 3.6/??GHz <----> 12C Skylake for desktop ??/??GHz.

 

[Gon Freecss]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

Oh, that's going to be insane, considering the 10C Broadwell-E processor's base clock is at 3.0GHz.

Btw, going a little back to what you said, you said Skylake-X isn't the same microarchitecture as Skylake. Isn't Skylake-X basically Skylake + more L2 cache + a little less L3 cache + 512bit support?

 

[jwcrellin]

Its also going to have higher tdp, more surface area/higher socket pin count, and no integrated graphics.

 

[FullmetalJacket]

Its also going to have higher tdp, more surface area/higher socket pin count, and no integrated graphics.

Good NO IG ,No one in there right mind would use integrated graphics ,With a good chip ,If your building a workstation I always buy a graphics .Cheap for an office computer or High end for Studio or Engineering PCs.

 

[juanrga]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

Oh, that's going to be insane, considering the 10C Broadwell-E processor's base clock is at 3.0GHz.

Btw, going a little back to what you said, you said Skylake-X isn't the same microarchitecture as Skylake. Isn't Skylake-X basically Skylake + more L2 cache + a little less L3 cache + 512bit support?

One would compare Xeon to Xeon. The fastest 12C Broadwell Xeon had 3.0GHz base clock and the fastest 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clock.

My guess for consumer chips

SKL 12C ~ 3.2GHz
SKL 10C ~ 3.4GHz
SKL 8C ~ 3.6GHz
SKL 6C ~ 3.8GHz
CFL 6C ~ 4.0GHz

Right, SKylake-X is a different microarchitecture. Cache structure (and performance) changes radically, and execution units and datapaths get updated to 512bit. There are also changes in other parts as on memory support: up to 2667MHz DDR4 and Intel Optane Technology.

 

[Gon Freecss]

I know, but I thought they might be able to squeeze more IPC with Coffee Lake. lol

I see. I can't wait for Skylake-X to drop!

Today I discovered that the 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clocks. If those clocks translate to the Skylake-X line then this chip will be an absolute beast.

Oh, that's going to be insane, considering the 10C Broadwell-E processor's base clock is at 3.0GHz.

Btw, going a little back to what you said, you said Skylake-X isn't the same microarchitecture as Skylake. Isn't Skylake-X basically Skylake + more L2 cache + a little less L3 cache + 512bit support?

One would compare Xeon to Xeon. The fastest 12C Broadwell Xeon had 3.0GHz base clock and the fastest 12C Skylake Xeon has 3.6GHz base clock.

My guess for consumer chips

SKL 12C ~ 3.2GHz
SKL 10C ~ 3.4GHz
SKL 8C ~ 3.6GHz
SKL 6C ~ 3.8GHz
CFL 6C ~ 4.0GHz

Right, SKylake-X is a different microarchitecture. Cache structure (and performance) changes radically, and execution units and datapaths get updated to 512bit. There are also changes in other parts as on memory support: up to 2667MHz DDR4 and Intel Optane Technology.

I guess.

That seems to be a pretty good guess. In line with what I thought the clocks for the 12C processor.

I see. So, basically an updated Skylake architecture, right? Also, won't Optane SSDs work on any PCIE slot?