Question New build AIO fans the wrong way round - need replacement!

[davidbenpark]

I've just build a new rig and have one issue to resolve.

• Case: Thermaltake The Tower 300
• AIO: Thermaltake TH360 V2 Ultra ARGB
• Motherboard: MSI B650M Project Zero with 2 x RGB LED connector and 3 x System Fan header

Because the AIO has to intake to pull cool air over the rad, the fans are in backwards and it looks bad. I need replacement fans that go in reverse but I don't know what to buy. I'm aware of Thermaltake SWAFAN EX 12 ARGB with reversible blades - can these be used on the radiator as a direct replacement? Are there alternatives?

And can the fans I pull off the rad then be used as case fans?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lutfij]

Yes you can drop this fan into the build;
https://www.thermaltake.com/swafan-ex12-argb-sync-pc-cooling-fan-tt-premium-edition-3-fan-pack.html
but please keep in mind that the reverse blade setup actually has reduced static pressure, which is what you need when shopping for fans that are meant to push air through a radiator or a fin stack.

If I were you, I'd reverse the fans that came bundled with the AIO as so;
Case internals<AIO Radiator<Fans<Case fan bracket

 

[davidbenpark]

Yes you can drop this fan into the build;
https://www.thermaltake.com/swafan-ex12-argb-sync-pc-cooling-fan-tt-premium-edition-3-fan-pack.html
but please keep in mind that the reverse blade setup actually has reduced static pressure, which is what you need when shopping for fans that are meant to push air through a radiator or a fin stack.

If I were you, I'd reverse the fans that came bundled with the AIO as so;
Case internals<AIO Radiator<Fans<Case fan bracket

Thanks for the confirmation Lutfij! I'll likely just buy those ones. I appreciate your point about reduced static pressure, but I just want the case to look perfect, and I think I've got a little headroom on the cooling side as my ryzen 7900 only hits 40 in idle, and 78deg under 98% load in cinebench. I'll also be adding another intake fan, and replacing the 2 existing exhausts with better ones, so hopefully it'll still run nice and cool.

 

[Paperdoc]

I'm not sure I understand your problem. I presume you are mounting the rad and fans in the font panel and want the fan lights to appear clearly through that front panel. That means the the fans must be mounted on the OUTside of the rad, between the rad and the case front panel. Further, those fans need to be mounted so that they are drawing outside air in through the front panel, through the fans, and blowing the air through the rad toward the interior of the case.

Right now I am guessing your fans are mounted on the rad on the SAME side as the rad hoses to the pump so they are NOT clearly visible from outside. You need to move them to the other side of the rad WITHOUT turning them around. That way they can continue to be INTAKE fans.

IF your fans are currently on the inside as I suspect, then they are fastened to the rad using some long bolts into threaded holes in the rad frame. Separately there are shorter bolts passing through holes in the front panel of the case and into similar threaded holes in the other side of the rad frame. What you can do is to remove all those bolts so rad and fans are disconnected and not mounted to the case. Now you position the rad with each fan in turn on the FRONT (OUTside) of the rad BUT INside the case front panel frame, and turned so it IS still sucking air from the room and lined up with those holes in the rad AND the matching holes in the case front panel. Use only those long bolts that were holding the fans to the rad frame. Each bolt goes from outside through the case front frame hole first, then the fan frame, then into the rad frame threaded hole. Once you get all 12 bolts threaded in gently you can go around and tighten each, ensuring everything still is lined up for smooth screw turning. When they all are tight those long bolts serve BOTH to fasten the fans to the rad AND to fasten the entire assembly to the inside of the case front frame. The fans are sandwiched between the case front panel and the rad frame.

From what I can see on the Thermaltake web pages for that AIO, the fans have theor LIGHTS mounted in the motor hub so that they light the BLADES of the fan, and that light then will be clearly visible from the front outside of the case if they are mounted OUTside the rad.

 

[USAFRet]

I've just build a new rig and have one issue to resolve.

A picture is worth 1,000 words.

 

[davidbenpark]

A picture is worth 1,000 words.

Good point! Ok so you can see the RGB is facing the radiator. I'd like it to be facing into the case. There's no glass to the right, so putting the fans on the outside of the rad would just hide them even more.

Here's what I'm trying to achieve:

 

[davidbenpark]

I presume you are mounting the rad and fans in the font panel and want the fan lights to appear clearly through that front panel.

Sorry, not quite! Please see the picture I posted in my previous reply to USAFRet.

Sorry I've not been clearer. I'm a total amateur. I can totally see why you thought that.

 

[Phaaze88]

Good point! Ok so you can see the RGB is facing the radiator. I'd like it to be facing into the case. There's no glass to the right, so putting the fans on the outside of the rad would just hide them even more.

Here's what I'm trying to achieve:

You don't have to follow that to a T - there's more than one way to set this up. Plus, that marketing image might have a couple errors that can't be seen directly, such as, 'is that a normal fan on top of the psu shroud', and 'what direction is the psu fan facing'.
You can:
A)Leave it like it is in your pic, but the psu should be fan up, otherwise the top becomes the only exhaust.
In this setup, the cpu AIO and the gpu cooler are intakes, and the top and the bottom-rear of the case are exhausts.

B)Flip the cpu AIO fans around + psu fan down.
Intake from gpu cooler, exits the top and the right side. Psu is isolated from the 'stream'.

There are more options if you get that kit that positions the case horizontally - if you have enough space for it.

 

[COLGeek]

When you look at the case's website, it appears full of oddities.

Note the airflow diagrams and unless I am mistaken the fans all look like exhaust fans in the pictures. This would suggest airflow comes in from the side by the GPU.

This seems off.

https://www.thermaltake.com/the-tower-300-micro-tower-chassis.html

 

[davidbenpark]

When you look at the case's website, it appears full of oddities.

Note the airflow diagrams and unless I am mistaken the fans all look like exhaust fans in the pictures. This would suggest airflow comes in from the side by the GPU.

This seems off.

https://www.thermaltake.com/the-tower-300-micro-tower-chassis.html

Here's now I understand what the case manufacturer recommends:
- Intake from the right and left by the AIO and GPU fans
- 1 fan at the bottom of the case pulling in through the bottom front vents, then exhausting up the way
- 2 fans at the top of the case, and 2 at the rear as exhausts
- PSU is fan down, sucking in cool air and venting at the back

It's confusing because they're using reverse fans on the bottom of the case and the AIO

 

[davidbenpark]

I'm basically discovering that there is such a thing as reverse fans, as well as fans with the rgb visible on both sides - both of which would do the job (I think).

I'll need:

• 3x 120mm radiator fans for the AIO
• 3x 140mm case fans - 1 for the bottom and 2 for the top

Hopefully that's enough information to get feedback on whether or not I'm doing something sensible or ill-advised.

Reverse fan option:

https://www.scan.co.uk/images/products/3446495-a.jpg

RGB on both sides option:

 

[COLGeek]

Several listed on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=reverse+...e+case+fans,aps,89&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_17

 

[Phaaze88]

- 1 fan at the bottom of the case pulling in through the bottom front vents, then exhausting up the way

- PSU is fan down, sucking in cool air and venting at the back

It's confusing because they're using reverse fans on the bottom of the case and the AIO

'Cause marketing teams are to dress things up to help a product sell. It making sense is NOT on their agenda. The engineers are likely facepalming.
How does a bottom intake fan right above the psu physically intended to work when the psu is facing fan down? They are not bottom to top flow through; they ventilate at right angles.
Flip the psu to fan down, and what is that bottom intake case fan getting air from, the 4th dimension???
"Who cares, it looks good, right?"


https://file.thermaltake.com/file/qig/TheTower300_ThermalReport.pdf
According to that, a test was run with the normal Toughfan 140 as a case intake, and the psu was apparently an intake... Which means it was fan down...
... the psu isolated from the rest of the air 'traffic'; it intakes and exhausts air for itself, and nothing else...
... the case fan is drawing air through a solid wall... *bangs head*

 

[davidbenpark]

'Cause marketing teams are to dress things up to help a product sell. It making sense is NOT on their agenda. The engineers are likely facepalming.
How does a bottom intake fan right above the psu physically intended to work when the psu is facing fan down? They are not bottom to top flow through; they ventilate at right angles.
Flip the psu to fan down, and what is that bottom intake case fan getting air from, the 4th dimension???
"Who cares, it looks good, right?"


https://file.thermaltake.com/file/qig/TheTower300_ThermalReport.pdf
According to that, a test was run with the normal Toughfan 140 as a case intake, and the psu was apparently an intake... Which means it was fan down...
... the psu isolated from the rest of the air 'traffic'; it intakes and exhausts air for itself, and nothing else...
... the case fan is drawing air through a solid wall... *bangs head*

I'd like to understand better what the problems are because, while I acknowledge your exasperation and the knowledge you have, I don't know what to do with the info unless I glean a bit more detail from you.

The PSU sucks air from under the case where there's a 1 inch gap, and exhausts out the back at a right angle. Can you elaborate why this is bad?

The case fan at the bottom isn't exactly drawing air through a solid wall. It sits an inch or two above the PSU on a vented platform, drawing air from the 3 vents below it at the front of the case. It pushes cooler(?) air over the mobo/cpu up to the exhausts. Can you please elaborate why this is bad, also?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Phaaze88]

The PSU sucks air from under the case where there's a 1 inch gap, and exhausts out the back at a right angle. Can you elaborate why this is bad?

That part isn't bad, but the marketing images with the case fan on top of it are.

The case fan at the bottom isn't exactly drawing air through a solid wall. It sits an inch or two above the PSU on a vented platform, drawing air from the 3 vents below it at the front of the case. It pushes cooler(?) air over the mobo/cpu up to the exhausts. Can you please elaborate why this is bad, also?

Air resistance. Obstacles - the more there are, the higher the resistance. There's only so much a fan can deal with through brute force before it effectively does nothing.
Psu shrouds, size and shape of perforations in the case and filters, dust filters, dust itself, psu cables in the path... it all adds up.

Fans draw air in a conical form in front of them. One inch gap between bottom case fan and psu, but the available surface area to breathe is more closed off than the space below the psu in fan down position.


I'm not against using a case fan down there, but the most effective way to use one, I believe, is for that fan to be an exhaust, with the psu being fan up. It should effectively move more air than if it were intake and the psu being fan down.

 

[davidbenpark]

That part isn't bad, but the marketing images with the case fan on top of it are.


Air resistance. Obstacles - the more there are, the higher the resistance. There's only so much a fan can deal with through brute force before it effectively does nothing.
Psu shrouds, size and shape of perforations in the case and filters, dust filters, dust itself, psu cables in the path... it all adds up.

Fans draw air in a conical form in front of them. One inch gap between bottom case fan and psu, but the available surface area to breathe is more closed off than the space below the psu in fan down position.


I'm not against using a case fan down there, but the most effective way to use one, I believe, is for that fan to be an exhaust, with the psu being fan up. It should effectively move more air than if it were intake and the psu being fan down.

Good explanation, thank you I can see why the obstacles below the bottom case fan would make it a poor intake.

I've now got enough fans to do a thermals comparison. I'll try the 2 configurations and report back in a week or so:

1. Bottom case fan set to intake with PSU facing down
2. Bottom case fan set to exhaust with PSU facing up

For scenario 2, is there any issue with a case fan blowing directly into a PSU fan from only an inch or two away? Or should it just pass through and out the back of the PSU without damaging the PSU internals over time?

 

[Phaaze88]

Good explanation, thank you I can see why the obstacles below the bottom case fan would make it a poor intake.

I've now got enough fans to do a thermals comparison. I'll try the 2 configurations and report back in a week or so:

1. Bottom case fan set to intake with PSU facing down
2. Bottom case fan set to exhaust with PSU facing up

For scenario 2, is there any issue with a case fan blowing directly into a PSU fan from only an inch or two away? Or should it just pass through and out the back of the PSU without damaging the PSU internals over time?

It should pass through and out the back. The components will be fine.
Fractal's Torrent, for example, hasn't had any problems with that.