Origin PC Opting for Nvidia Over AMD GPUs for Gaming PCs

[iam2thecrowe]

Well nvidia has to sell to someone. It's not like NVIDIA got the xbox or ps4 or even the wii contracts. I don't know who origin are myself. The article or them sounds like my boss just being childish. Boo hoo origin you nobody company. Good luck with nvidia given 99% of games will be AMD optimised shortly due to the three top consoles being all AMD based you idiots

But didn't AMD say that unlike their competitors they would always play fair and stick to open standards? Granted Mantle is propriety at the moment and it remains to be seen how that turns out but if AMD's word is to be worth anything then any and all games should be optimised for both camps, surely?

Even if AMD didn't pay the devs, if the consoles use AMD hardware then the games will be tuned for that. I don't think that is unfair but rather a natural consequence..

bf4 is supposedly tuned for AMD hardware, yet it doesn't run better on it, it does bring their cpu's up to par though. don't expect it will run better on amd hardware until this mantle thing comes out, if AMD get it working properly.

 

[rokit]

@Mousemonkey
Its not about Nvidia vs AMD. The whole idea with builds is fail. If someone has money but no knowledge(neither his nor friends') he goes/call to local store and they pick parts for him, if someone has less money and is in the same shoes he does the same.
Even though its really hard to believe that people at 2013 are total tools on a subject and have no friends with knowledge. And ofcourse its relevant on a very first buy.
After that such people know what PC consists of and second time they only need to search through reviews on familiar parts. And they will have better hardware for the $ than PC builders like Origin PC could propose them with their small choice.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It's clear that Mousemonkey won't listen to reason. He attacks everyone's position without providing any facts. And when the facts he provides are proven as wrong or incorrectly interpreted he goes for the emotional argument. He's trashing AMD's drivers but the truth is nVidia an AMD/ATI have traded places for years when it comes to drivers and performance. This time around AMD has everything except the top tier space and nVidia has better drivers. I have both in several sets of machines, what you use is your choice, give it a few years and things will change again.

The facts are in the article and that is what this thread is about you guys are attacking me because you yourselves can provide no evidence of your own of any bribes,

 

[zeddd]

And who cares about Origin PC?
Is this article an advertisement?

 

[DjEaZy]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/APU-Bitter-Neal-Robison-Tony-Tamasi-PlayStation,21791.html
... so nVidia need to push something... but they are out of console business 4 this cycle... shield is meh... tegra 4 combined with windows RT is meh too... a bit of succes in China with Xiaomi... then a finger from Linus:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/linus-torvalds-linux-driver-nvidia-geforce-worst-company,16049.html
... and... a fun thing would be if AMD's Mantle would be implemented in next apple products... the MacPro will have 2x AMD's FireGL cards as standard... the OpenCL is good with AMD, imagine it with Mantle... and... i would buy a MacBook Air with AMD's APU...

 

[The_Trutherizer]

It's an interesting move to make just before AMD's new gfx cards come out. I'm rather certain they are shooting themselves in the foot here.

I see somebody mentioning the 9700pro having driver issues. Lol... An ATI graphics card had driver issues 11 years ago and he is still throwing this driver issue crap AMD's way. They did not even own the company yet back then.

And NVidia often have severe issues. A quick google:

NVIDIA driver 320.49 WHQL freezing my PC - Jul 6, 2013
NVIDIA DRIVERS 320.49 WHQL PROBLEM!!! - Jul 11,2013
Latest Nvidia driver causing severe graphics driver problems - Jul 2, 2013
Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs - Jun 3, 2013
Nvidia 320.18 driver warning - Jun 15, 2013
Update: I am now seeing 580m's burning out - be warned!
Update 2: Now a 675m turns up burned over in the NV forum
Update 3: (6/19) Another two dead cards since the last update here

That's just the first page and a little extract from one of the pages. All very recent. And btw... With the launch of the hangar module for Star Citizen. Guess who were complaining on the forums that their older cards are burning out...

From what I remember of NVidia GPUs: Hype, paying too much money, doing dangerous things to try and get more performance as the cards get older, 3rd party drivers, brick.

Steam keeps my GPU drivers for AMD up to date. I have never had to install drivers myself. I have never had to configure drivers myself for anything. I have never had to overclock. And the thing is running as well today as it did 2 and a half years ago. 6950. Zero mess. Zero fuss. Ran Crysis, Metro, Elder Scrolls, etc... etc... etc... No problems.

What's the damned driver problem that is so "SERIOUS"?

 

[Mousemonkey]

It's an interesting move to make just before AMD's new gfx cards come out. I'm rather certain they are shooting themselves in the foot here.

I see somebody mentioning the 9700pro having driver issues. Lol... An ATI graphics card had driver issues 11 years ago and he is still throwing this driver issue crap AMD's way. They did not even own the company yet back then.

And NVidia often have severe issues. A quick google:

NVIDIA driver 320.49 WHQL freezing my PC - Jul 6, 2013
NVIDIA DRIVERS 320.49 WHQL PROBLEM!!! - Jul 11,2013
Latest Nvidia driver causing severe graphics driver problems - Jul 2, 2013
Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs - Jun 3, 2013
Nvidia 320.18 driver warning - Jun 15, 2013
Update: I am now seeing 580m's burning out - be warned!
Update 2: Now a 675m turns up burned over in the NV forum
Update 3: (6/19) Another two dead cards since the last update here

That's just the first page and a little extract from one of the pages. All very recent. And btw... With the launch of the hangar module for Star Citizen. Guess who were complaining on the forums that their older cards are burning out...

From what I remember of NVidia GPUs: Hype, paying too much money, doing dangerous things to try and get more performance as the cards get older, 3rd party drivers, brick.

Steam keeps my GPU drivers for AMD up to date. I have never had to install drivers myself. I have never had to configure drivers myself for anything. I have never had to overclock. And the thing is running as well today as it did 2 and a half years ago. 6950. Zero mess. Zero fuss. Ran Crysis, Metro, Elder Scrolls, etc... etc... etc... No problems.

What's the damned driver problem that is so "SERIOUS"?

The two guys to ask are Kevin Wasielewski & Alvaro Masis as they are the people who's emails are being quoted.

Kevin Wasielewski, co-founder and CEO of Origin PC, wrote about the reasons for the move in an email. “Origin PC is dedicated to providing the best experience for our customers and right now that is with Nvidia GPUs. It's not about brand loyalty or marketing; our loyalty is 100 percent to our customers,”

Alvaro Masis, a technical support manager at Origin. “Primarily the overall issues have been stability of the cards, overheating, performance, scaling and the amount of time to receive new drivers on both desktop and mobile GPUs,”

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/60945-origin-pc-systems-powered-exclusively-nvidia-gpus/

 

[iam2thecrowe]

Kevin Wasielewski, co-founder and CEO of Origin PC, wrote about the reasons for the move in an email. “Origin PC is dedicated to providing the best experience for our customers and right now that is with Nvidia GPUs. It's not about brand loyalty or marketing; our loyalty is 100 percent to our customers,”

Alvaro Masis, a technical support manager at Origin. “Primarily the overall issues have been stability of the cards, overheating, performance, scaling and the amount of time to receive new drivers on both desktop and mobile GPUs,”

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/60945-origin-pc-systems-powered-exclusively-nvidia-gpus/[/quotemsg]
this is just it, everyone can bitch and moan about their personal experiences, but if origins issues are there, there is nothing else to say. I would suspect if its anything in particular, it would the eyefinity + crossfire problem (50% dropped frames and graphical glitches), and the long delay in attempting to fix their crossfire frame latency issues, which are still not 100% fixed, and it doesnt work well at all in many games that its listed to work for. there is no denying these problems exist, they are real. You cant sell your customer that crap. especially considering people that would buy a pre-build PC would not be technically knowledgeable to attempt all the crossfire "fixes" that are out there, they just want shit to work out the box as expected.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It's going to be interesting to see whether AMD respond to this in any way, shape, form or fashion.

 

[bustapr]

Quote:
Wow, this is a big loss for AMD, and a major coup for NVidia. The tens of machines Origin sell each year will really cripple AMD's sales.

No, not a big loss at all. AMD has Xbox One and Playstation 4, and these are big markets. On the otherhand, Origin PC is a niche market, unlike Dell, HP, etc.

It is a small loss for AMD, but may be relatively bigger loss for Origin because of AMD fan base. AMD may lose maybe 1% of sales, while Origin may lose 10% of their sales. But then perhaps, if Nvidia gave them good discounts for going all-Nvidia plus other businesses, then that might even up for Origin PC.

careful, the sarcasm looks like it wants to smack you across the face.

 

[Drejeck]

It's much better to build on your own, getting info on hardware today is really easy. PC building is just like advanced Lego Technics. All you have to do is reading the manuals.
You don't get any unique or specially tailored equipment buying any pre-built PC unless it's a special form factor. Everything you build on your own can be less expensive or much better quality and it doesn't come at a pre-built system premium price. Always be aware of: quality of PSUs (ripple especially), case airflow efficiency for the desired FF, quality of fans (there are like 4 or 5 fans in the whole world worth buying).
Be wise and never go overkill, tailor the system on your monitor performance and sound system.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It's much better to build on your own, getting info on hardware today is really easy. PC building is just like advanced Lego Technics. All you have to do is reading the manuals.
You don't get any unique or specially tailored equipment buying any pre-built PC unless it's a special form factor. Everything you build on your own can be less expensive or much better quality and it doesn't come at a pre-built system premium price. Always be aware of: quality of PSUs (ripple especially), case airflow efficiency for the desired FF, quality of fans (there are like 4 or 5 fans in the whole world worth buying).
Be wise and never go overkill, tailor the system on your monitor performance and sound system.

Whilst I totally agree with you it doesn't detract from the fact that companies like Origin can and do exist to cater for that percentile who have a shedload of money to burn, I work in the home automation industry and as such I get to see how the other half live and I can tell you now that they live it large.

 

[Drejeck]

Whilst I totally agree with you it doesn't detract from the fact that companies like Origin can and do exist to cater for that percentile who have a shedload of money to burn, I work in the home automation industry and as such I get to see how the other half live and I can tell you now that they live it large.

Yes, you are right. The same target of Alienware and the custom builders around the world like Singularity. But I hardly believe those have any idea about the IT market, gaming world and whatsoever. It would be much better to burn that kind of money in audiophile systems which lasts longer and are infinitely more enjoyable, or a home lan party room.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Yes its true that the choice is ultimately there's. But the way they Bashed AMD and there drivers whats really wrong. It sounded someone manipulated origin builders and scripted to say in a particular way. Doesn't sounded like that ??

Well if what they have said is untrue then they could be looking at a lawsuit for slander and I'm pretty sure that even a small company like Origin have a legal eagle on the payroll who would have advised them against telling lies.

A better analysis of the topic from SemiAccurate @ http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/05/much-nvidia-pay-origin-pc-drop-amd/

Quote:
Nvidia payed them exactly how much they were making in revenue for the AMD gpus and asked them to drop amd and make a press statement about it. Origin bought the bribe.


Can you provide us with any proof to back up such a claim?

Quote:
Nvidia payed them exactly how much they were making in revenue for the AMD gpus and asked them to drop amd and make a press statement about it. Origin bought the bribe.


Can you provide us with any proof to back up such a claim?

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/05/much-nvidia-pay-origin-pc-drop-amd/

And there has been a response to Charlie and his baseless rantings!

http://www.gamefront.com/origin-pc-ceo-responds-to-amd-gpu-controversy/

 

[Novuake]

I see the long arm of Jen-Hsun Huang's PR team in this...

There is NO WAY origin would do this without KNOWING they would get something out of it, the AMD driver situation is not really worthy of being called a situation, never mind an actual problem...

They are throwing away business, so I am sure they have some sort of deal with SOMEONE...

 

[Wisecracker]

I see the long arm of Jen-Hsun Huang's PR team in this...

There is NO WAY origin would do this without KNOWING they would get something out of it, the AMD driver situation is not really worthy of being called a situation, never mind an actual problem...

They are throwing away business, so I am sure they have some sort of deal with SOMEONE...

Ding !!

nVidia is fighting a process battle they cannot win, at price points they cannot win, with GPU dies 40% larger than their competition - with likely lower per-wafer yields than AMD....

while currently losing massive low-end card sales to Trinity/Richland APU integrated graphics, and facing the prospect of more massive low-end fail with the release of the Kaveri APU before the end of the year.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Well the CEO from Origin says that isn't so and unless evidence to the contrary surfaces he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, at least he would in anything other than a kangaroo court.

 

[smeezekitty]

Well the CEO from Origin says that isn't so and unless evidence to the contrary surfaces he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, at least he would in anything other than a kangaroo court.

Haven't you heard of lying?


For example this obvious load of bull from NVidia on hybrid physx

PhysX is an open software standard. Any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. NVIDIA supports GPU accelerated PhysX on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes PhysX a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons–some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons–NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated PhysX with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non-NVIDIA GPUs. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused but I hope you can understand.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Well the CEO from Origin says that isn't so and unless evidence to the contrary surfaces he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, at least he would in anything other than a kangaroo court.

Haven't you heard of lying?


For example this obvious load of bull from NVidia on hybrid physx

PhysX is an open software standard. Any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. NVIDIA supports GPU accelerated PhysX on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes PhysX a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons–some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons–NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated PhysX with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non-NVIDIA GPUs. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused but I hope you can understand.

So when was that quote from?

 

[Novuake]

I see the long arm of Jen-Hsun Huang's PR team in this...

There is NO WAY origin would do this without KNOWING they would get something out of it, the AMD driver situation is not really worthy of being called a situation, never mind an actual problem...

They are throwing away business, so I am sure they have some sort of deal with SOMEONE...

Ding !!

nVidia is fighting a process battle they cannot win, at price points they cannot win, with GPU dies 40% larger than their competition - with likely lower per-wafer yields than AMD....

while currently losing massive low-end card sales to Trinity/Richland APU integrated graphics, and facing the prospect of more massive low-end fail with the release of the Kaveri APU before the end of the year.

Wait, WHAT?

HD7950 (since R series not out yet) - 352mm²
GTX 760 - 294mm²

Now that would indicate that Nvidia is getting way more yield in general than AMD... I know, its not that simple, but still, less die = less cost.
Not to mention in EVERY segment AMD is using the MORE physical hardware than Nvidia (RAM for example).

Nvidia also has their own manufacturing plants, unlike AMD.

But I DO agree on the fact that their low end GPUs are losing them SOME money, but users are still very uninformed on how crap the low end GTs are, so they still end up buying GT630s and the like.

Pretty sure that they would not be much bothered with a price war.

 

[Novuake]

[
So when was that quote from?

WHO it was a quoted from is more appropriate. Since bad business practices rarely change.

 

[Mousemonkey]

[
So when was that quote from?

WHO it was a quoted from is more appropriate. Since bad business practices rarely change.

Though Mantle is currently of the same "Open standard" as it only runs on GCN cores so it seems more of a "Double standard" than an open one.

 

[Novuake]

[
So when was that quote from?

WHO it was a quoted from is more appropriate. Since bad business practices rarely change.

Though Mantle is currently of the same "Open standard" as it only runs on GCN cores so it seems more of a "Double standard" than an open one.

Meh... Never said AMD has not done the same thing...

 

[Mousemonkey]

[
So when was that quote from?

WHO it was a quoted from is more appropriate. Since bad business practices rarely change.

Though Mantle is currently of the same "Open standard" as it only runs on GCN cores so it seems more of a "Double standard" than an open one.

Meh... Never said AMD has not done the same thing...

Never said you did, just thought I'd point that out to the "others".

 

[smeezekitty]

There is a difference between a deliberate lockout and compatibility due to hardware.