mnmagnolia
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jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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Folks who post nothing crack me up, and have no clue. 😉
Next war and $1T+ deficit add-on, Iran -- over what? Oil?! Or some other BS like they're making 'Nuclear Bombs'; another BS and moronic war like Iraq. Unless Iran or Iraq or some other Country attacks us then we have absolutely no business in their affairs. Kiss another $1 Trillion unfunded (no War Tax) bye-bye not to mention thousands of lives.
Next war and $1T+ deficit add-on, Iran -- over what? Oil?! Or some other BS like they're making 'Nuclear Bombs'; another BS and moronic war like Iraq. Unless Iran or Iraq or some other Country attacks us then we have absolutely no business in their affairs. Kiss another $1 Trillion unfunded (no War Tax) bye-bye not to mention thousands of lives.
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
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How quickly people forget that Libya was trying to make nuclear weapons only a few short years ago.
Afghanistan was required because of Bin Laden. That's the sole reason for going in there. The consequences of such was that we had to overthrow the current government. Iraq would have happened sooner or later and should have been finished the first time around. Iran, with Iraq out of the question, now has more control over the region. The dominos are falling and each will be addressed as needed.
We won't need to go to war with Iran. They have enough unrest that the current loon will be removed. He is being held in check by the supreme leaders. What you see in the media is all gamesmanship. Not along ago the US decimated Iran's naval fleet with ease and they are very well aware of the US's conventional capabilities.
Intersting enough you mention a trillion dollar war(s). Last time I checked it was around $800 billion over the course of 10 years. Yet, recently the new budget was released and is running $1.1 TRILLION over this year alone. Heck, remove the wars and all the associated cost of that and 10 years of debt is barely a dent in a single year. Put it in perspective.
Afghanistan was required because of Bin Laden. That's the sole reason for going in there. The consequences of such was that we had to overthrow the current government. Iraq would have happened sooner or later and should have been finished the first time around. Iran, with Iraq out of the question, now has more control over the region. The dominos are falling and each will be addressed as needed.
We won't need to go to war with Iran. They have enough unrest that the current loon will be removed. He is being held in check by the supreme leaders. What you see in the media is all gamesmanship. Not along ago the US decimated Iran's naval fleet with ease and they are very well aware of the US's conventional capabilities.
Intersting enough you mention a trillion dollar war(s). Last time I checked it was around $800 billion over the course of 10 years. Yet, recently the new budget was released and is running $1.1 TRILLION over this year alone. Heck, remove the wars and all the associated cost of that and 10 years of debt is barely a dent in a single year. Put it in perspective.
jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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Iraq war - add interest and ongoing costs including the long-term VA costs and you're looking way North of $1 Trillion. Worst, if you look at the total costs including Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan then you're staring down closer to $4 Trillion USD <or> 25%+ of our total deficit.
War has very little with 'need', it's all about money. Don't be naive. Money and folks with money and 'power' don't (never) do what's 'best' for Americans. My family ties go back 14 generations and I don't like how, to me, newcomers are dismantling aka destroying our Country.
'IF' we wanted to 'punish' the Country with the 911 terrorists then we'd have invaded Saudi Arabia. You should search my comments in this thread about Bin Laden and the Bush's connection to him.
War has very little with 'need', it's all about money. Don't be naive. Money and folks with money and 'power' don't (never) do what's 'best' for Americans. My family ties go back 14 generations and I don't like how, to me, newcomers are dismantling aka destroying our Country.
'IF' we wanted to 'punish' the Country with the 911 terrorists then we'd have invaded Saudi Arabia. You should search my comments in this thread about Bin Laden and the Bush's connection to him.
- May 28, 2010
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jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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Yeah, I already said "Next war and $1T+ deficit add-on, Iran -- over what? Oil?!" Look 9 posts ^ up.
I'm just waiting and implying, what 'BS' excuse are going to 'make-up' to start a war with Iran. Way earlier in this Thread I said we need to take the TRILLIONS and use it for alternative fuel sources -- then we wouldn't give a crap about the Middle East.
Next, quit using slave labor in China; if we simply moved back the US factories to the USA then sure we'd pay more for an e.g. Intel CPU or Apple iPad *BUT* more folks could afford them. Further, we wouldn't need to borrow our OWN money we bled-out to China.
Uncontrolled greed has really F%$&ed us but good. Want a new law, donate big via a SuperPac to puppet I mean politician.
I'm just waiting and implying, what 'BS' excuse are going to 'make-up' to start a war with Iran. Way earlier in this Thread I said we need to take the TRILLIONS and use it for alternative fuel sources -- then we wouldn't give a crap about the Middle East.
Next, quit using slave labor in China; if we simply moved back the US factories to the USA then sure we'd pay more for an e.g. Intel CPU or Apple iPad *BUT* more folks could afford them. Further, we wouldn't need to borrow our OWN money we bled-out to China.
Uncontrolled greed has really F%$&ed us but good. Want a new law, donate big via a SuperPac to puppet I mean politician.
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
- 14,175
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We will not go to war with Iran. Mark my words. Iran will not close the straight. Iran is too dependent on their oil exports to make any move. The US has some control in multiple border countries of Iran.
Iran at this point is negotiating for the best terms.
Regarding the costs of the war. Show me the numbers. If you include the entire US military budget, above and beyond the costs of the war, yes, you can come to that conclusion. But if you look at the associated cost by going to war, last time I checked we had not exceeded $1 trillion. In fact, last time I checked social programs in the US still outweighed the cost of war.
Iran at this point is negotiating for the best terms.
Regarding the costs of the war. Show me the numbers. If you include the entire US military budget, above and beyond the costs of the war, yes, you can come to that conclusion. But if you look at the associated cost by going to war, last time I checked we had not exceeded $1 trillion. In fact, last time I checked social programs in the US still outweighed the cost of war.
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
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In fact, $800.6 billion dollars since 2001 on the cost of war up to 2011. This actually goes along with the CBO saying it costs about $72 billion a year. That money is spent building tanks, bombs, parts, etc. which a vast majority are in the US.
Look at WWII as the reason we got out of a depression. War.
Look at WWII as the reason we got out of a depression. War.
jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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Show me -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War
"the Costs of War project, which said the total for wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan is at least $3.2-4 trillion.
The powers that be LOVE WAR = $Money$.
During 'WWII' we could have accomplished the same thing (financial stimulus) by building the: Tanks, Planes, Ships, blah, blah, and shoving the crap off a pier into the ocean.
Making-up crap and stirring the 'bee hive' is how we get into these 'wars'. Iraq was like beating the crap out of a random stranger in the crowd for flying planes into the buildings.
"WMD" total horse crap with Iraq, Strait Of Hormuz <or> Nuclear <or> some other crap we can think of... The other hot spot is North Korea -- we're itching to go there, but moneybags China told us not to so back to Iran.
Trust me, were going to War with someone, like spinning the bottle.
"the Costs of War project, which said the total for wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan is at least $3.2-4 trillion.
The powers that be LOVE WAR = $Money$.
During 'WWII' we could have accomplished the same thing (financial stimulus) by building the: Tanks, Planes, Ships, blah, blah, and shoving the crap off a pier into the ocean.
Making-up crap and stirring the 'bee hive' is how we get into these 'wars'. Iraq was like beating the crap out of a random stranger in the crowd for flying planes into the buildings.
"WMD" total horse crap with Iraq, Strait Of Hormuz <or> Nuclear <or> some other crap we can think of... The other hot spot is North Korea -- we're itching to go there, but moneybags China told us not to so back to Iran.
Trust me, were going to War with someone, like spinning the bottle.
jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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So now were down to name calling, how small of you. What are you a warmonger? I'm a Democrat so none of the above, you can read I assume -- look at my posts in this Thread. Doesn't mean that I don't disagree with his views on Iran, Iraq and Middle East - when you're right your right.
[flash=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/fjP816VwhJE[/flash]
Iran declared 'war' on both the US and Israel, because we support Israel. You need to research how Israel came to be and our ties to them. Again, 'bee hive' -- sanctions and oil -- edging us closer still. Again, if we didn't have the dependency on oil then we'd have no need for any of this craziness.
Take that money and invest it into renewable fuels. So many problems solved. Some day, our ancestors are going to look back and be correct that we were a bunch of primitive fools.
Where there's Effect there's Cause.
[flash=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/fjP816VwhJE[/flash]
Iran declared 'war' on both the US and Israel, because we support Israel. You need to research how Israel came to be and our ties to them. Again, 'bee hive' -- sanctions and oil -- edging us closer still. Again, if we didn't have the dependency on oil then we'd have no need for any of this craziness.
Take that money and invest it into renewable fuels. So many problems solved. Some day, our ancestors are going to look back and be correct that we were a bunch of primitive fools.
Where there's Effect there's Cause.
- May 28, 2010
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As a sovereign nation, Iran has the right to decide their own future and to establish their own national interests. By doing so, they will set the terms of how the international community will (or will not) deal with them.
For the rest of the world to assume (or wish away) that Iran is not a regional power would be foolish. Iran would also be foolish to assume that their actions won't have consequences.
These things being said, I really like to see the US request to re-open diplomatic relations with Iran. That act alone would take a great deal out of Iran's arguments as they relate to the US.
Personally, I don't see war with Iran as inevitable. I do, however, see them rallying the entire region should Israel or the US take any overt actions within their borders. This is why I don't see this pot boiling over. It will continue to simmer, but I just don't see this going too stupid.....
For the rest of the world to assume (or wish away) that Iran is not a regional power would be foolish. Iran would also be foolish to assume that their actions won't have consequences.
These things being said, I really like to see the US request to re-open diplomatic relations with Iran. That act alone would take a great deal out of Iran's arguments as they relate to the US.
Personally, I don't see war with Iran as inevitable. I do, however, see them rallying the entire region should Israel or the US take any overt actions within their borders. This is why I don't see this pot boiling over. It will continue to simmer, but I just don't see this going too stupid.....
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
- 14,175
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There is no reason to invade Iran. Conventional forces won't work due to the geography. They have too many supporters and not enough people who want to overthrow the current conditions.
We've seen what happens in Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, etc, in the last few years when the leadership is kicked out.
The best we can do is continue the covert operations and slow their progress. Eventually, another threat will pop up with aid from Russia and China, yet again.
There will be no war with Iran. We as a nation are unable to afford it.. we're broke and grasping to the last straws of being a super power.
We've seen what happens in Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, etc, in the last few years when the leadership is kicked out.
The best we can do is continue the covert operations and slow their progress. Eventually, another threat will pop up with aid from Russia and China, yet again.
There will be no war with Iran. We as a nation are unable to afford it.. we're broke and grasping to the last straws of being a super power.
jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
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If Israel keeps up their covert assassinations of Iran's Nuclear Physicists or others then Iran will attack Israel and we'll be sucked into a war.
We wouldn't nor would Europe have any financial problems if corporations quit capitalizing on slave labor of China and other similar countries. They might to live in grass huts and labor camps but most of the civilized world does not want to live on $0.53~$0.75 per hour.
We need politicians brave enough to do what's right and implement correct tax and trade policies and protect our core financial interests. So what if a trinket is 25% less when no one can afford the crap anymore from greedy corporations screwing the 'BUYING' middle class; cut off your nose to spite your face. We are in serious trouble and the 'Open door policy' needs to be 'closed' again. We're borrowing our own damn exported money!!!
We wouldn't nor would Europe have any financial problems if corporations quit capitalizing on slave labor of China and other similar countries. They might to live in grass huts and labor camps but most of the civilized world does not want to live on $0.53~$0.75 per hour.
We need politicians brave enough to do what's right and implement correct tax and trade policies and protect our core financial interests. So what if a trinket is 25% less when no one can afford the crap anymore from greedy corporations screwing the 'BUYING' middle class; cut off your nose to spite your face. We are in serious trouble and the 'Open door policy' needs to be 'closed' again. We're borrowing our own damn exported money!!!
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
- 14,175
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People aren't listening. We will not go to war with Iran. Iran will not go to war with Israel.
It. Will. Not. Happen.
Iran can only saber rattle. If they go to war, they will lose, the effects will be short term.. and in the end they will have nothing left. At best, they can only cause a stir and problems. They're a squeaky wheel and their threat is more concerning than their capabilities.
Iran can only issue threats.. they do not have the ability to wage a war for more than a few days. That's a minor blip. Their threats can echo much longer but even those are losing power as they are seen as truly empty.
As far as Tax, what is correct? I believe no tax is correct. Everything should be a sales tax instead. I live in Tennessee where we have Federal tax and sales tax. The sales tax keeps the money local and everyone does better. The state has a smaller budget and less responsibilities.
The Feds have overgrown and overextended. As the giant grows exponentially larger, the footprint does not grow at that pace. Everyone wants something, better roads, etc. The only reason we have it is because we took from everyone to give to some. And that some has to keep going around until everyone has 'some.' The problem is the giant is too large and 'some' doesn't come around often enough.
It. Will. Not. Happen.
Iran can only saber rattle. If they go to war, they will lose, the effects will be short term.. and in the end they will have nothing left. At best, they can only cause a stir and problems. They're a squeaky wheel and their threat is more concerning than their capabilities.
Iran can only issue threats.. they do not have the ability to wage a war for more than a few days. That's a minor blip. Their threats can echo much longer but even those are losing power as they are seen as truly empty.
As far as Tax, what is correct? I believe no tax is correct. Everything should be a sales tax instead. I live in Tennessee where we have Federal tax and sales tax. The sales tax keeps the money local and everyone does better. The state has a smaller budget and less responsibilities.
The Feds have overgrown and overextended. As the giant grows exponentially larger, the footprint does not grow at that pace. Everyone wants something, better roads, etc. The only reason we have it is because we took from everyone to give to some. And that some has to keep going around until everyone has 'some.' The problem is the giant is too large and 'some' doesn't come around often enough.
jaquith
Glorious
- Feb 8, 2009
- 14,235
- 27
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You're not of the age before regulation nor am I, but reviewing history we need a stronger Federal Government than you seem to feel necessary. The problem isn't it's size it's the level of corruption.
I lived in Kentucky for a longtime and like Kentucky, Tennessee is dependent on the Fed and both states are deemed 'Welfare States' meaning they take in more revenues from the Fed than they payout. Take away the Fed 'tit' and you'd be singing a much different song.
As far as a 'war', no I'm not worried about being 'nuked' by them. a 'Dirty Bomb' is still low on my Totem pole. Iran is no push over and is considerably more armed than knives and clubs, look at Afghanistan. The problem with ANY war is the people and their feelings towards the 'invading' country. It's one thing to take on a country that wants help and an entirely different thing all together having the entire population against us, knifes or clubs.
I understand the money behind wars and again we're itching for another. The obstacles are both China and Russia, and as the saying goes "the man with the gold makes the rules."
I lived in Kentucky for a longtime and like Kentucky, Tennessee is dependent on the Fed and both states are deemed 'Welfare States' meaning they take in more revenues from the Fed than they payout. Take away the Fed 'tit' and you'd be singing a much different song.
As far as a 'war', no I'm not worried about being 'nuked' by them. a 'Dirty Bomb' is still low on my Totem pole. Iran is no push over and is considerably more armed than knives and clubs, look at Afghanistan. The problem with ANY war is the people and their feelings towards the 'invading' country. It's one thing to take on a country that wants help and an entirely different thing all together having the entire population against us, knifes or clubs.
I understand the money behind wars and again we're itching for another. The obstacles are both China and Russia, and as the saying goes "the man with the gold makes the rules."
riser
Illustrious
- Feb 17, 2001
- 14,175
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- 40,960
But a war with Iran will not happen. Hezbollah is not Iran. We will be forced to step up security on our border but going to war with Iran will accomplish nothing. In fact, I was just reading an article about how we're failing miserably in Afghanistan which prompted me to come here to again state we will not go to war with Iran.
We will be stuck with covert operations in which we will ultimately suffer more because the other side doesn't care about living. We can keep killing them 100 to 1.. but that's too much for Americans. We will have to secure the border and they'll have a minimal impact down there.. there is a reason things haven't stepped up. They're planning the long game while we continue to think short term.
The Iranian people do not have the will to take their country back. This the same issue we see in Afghanistan. At best we'll launch a few cruise missiles and drop a few bombs.. nothing close to what Libya. Just enough to slow them down a little while longer.
Some things are happening. Things we can't control or do much against. Its a tough choice. Be the world's police and violate other countries to protect our own.. which we can't.. or back off and let extremism take over in other counrties?
Regarding Tennessee as a welfare state. Yes and no. TN sent in $35 billion in taxes and received $48 billion in Federal money. That $48 billion includes $15 billion for Federal programs in TN and $21 billion in social security. In one sense you can call it a welfare state, or you can realize that social security was already paid and and the counting the Federal precense there shouldn't count since it is a Federal, not State program.
wanamingo
Distinguished
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/world/asia/us-drone-strikes-are-said-to-target-rescuers.html
You know if you were between the ages of 8 - 14 when the war started you are now 18-24. Think about that you've grown up in a war zone, hundreds of thousands of people have been imprisoned and killed. Wouldn't that piss you off? Drone strikes on civilians, almost daily.
In some villages they took every fighting age male and locked them up, no trial no jury just get in the truck. (Source:Standard Operating Procedure Documentary) The American government has tortured people to death under the premiss of keeping its citizens safe, does that make you feel safer? Seriously its like some villain in a bond movie.
Haditha? Anyone?
BTW the links for the Mexican Hezbollah are awful, one person mentioned a speculative relationship between hezbollah and Mexico. The other is a document about how gang members are getting farsi tats. But with our governments reputation we might as well start another war.
You know if you were between the ages of 8 - 14 when the war started you are now 18-24. Think about that you've grown up in a war zone, hundreds of thousands of people have been imprisoned and killed. Wouldn't that piss you off? Drone strikes on civilians, almost daily.
In some villages they took every fighting age male and locked them up, no trial no jury just get in the truck. (Source:Standard Operating Procedure Documentary) The American government has tortured people to death under the premiss of keeping its citizens safe, does that make you feel safer? Seriously its like some villain in a bond movie.
Haditha? Anyone?
BTW the links for the Mexican Hezbollah are awful, one person mentioned a speculative relationship between hezbollah and Mexico. The other is a document about how gang members are getting farsi tats. But with our governments reputation we might as well start another war.
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