Study Finds Macs Cost 2X Windows PCs

[Lekko]

The only issue I see with a midrange to low-end Mac is that owning a mac would loose that whole 'image' of having a very very built high end powerful system.

Most folks I know have very very low-end entry windows machines that they dislike, so they end up eventually buying an apple since "they know they are good". By introducing lower end models, you are introducing a set of systems that will not "wow" customers like their current models do. Apple might loose that sheen when they cut cost.

 

[blinkdt]

Wow, Tuan, after your last fanciful article parroting the Apple "cost comparison" marketing hype you come up with this cynical piece? Sounds like somebody needs a hug. And please don't put pen to paper again on this issue until you've visited the Dell Outlet store, where the REAL bargains are found.

 

[randomizer]

Mac pwnz0rz PC, just accept it.

*watches post rating head south*

 

[docnasty]

[citation][nom]ClownBaby[/nom]So which is it? A few days ago the mac "price myth" was busted, but today, they cost twice as much. Why even publish this article? Are you trying to make amends for the last Mac piece, or simply trying to confuse and enrage your readers? Seriously, was there an change in the editor position at Tom's? The mix of editorializing, with stats selected to fit your argument is blatant CRAP! You used to be able to implicitly trust the word given on this site. It may as well be a tech tabloid now. My neighborhood newspaper has more sense than to publish writing this amateurish. Why don't you thoroughly benchmark a few mac systems, and then build PCs with the same capabilities, instead of bullshit comparisons? Why not just nip this bush league crap in the bud, stop publishing this author, and apologize for becoming a lousy website. There's a reason Tom's Hardware never sees any mac hardware on it. BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY! Why even bring up a system on a hardware page, that is for all purposes NOT UPGRADEABLE? What kind of business is this ready to alienate its audience? MACs are NOT for enthusiasts. They are for designers who don't give a shit about why their computer works, and Emo kids at coffee shops. I certainly hope your sponsors are keeping tabs on the site much these days, or you guys may have to get real jobs soon.[/citation]

Pretty much.

 

[blinkdt]

@mac_or_windows: recent Dell Outlet purchase: eye-catching slimline Inspiron model with Q6600 quad, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, SATA DVD-RW, 19-in-1 card reader, 7.1 audio, keyboard/mouse (not throw aways), and 19" widescreen for under $800 delivered. I priced the components individually at newegg and couldn't buy them separately for the price. Cheap components, you say? Sure, if you consider Intel, Western Digital, Samsung, Micron, and others in that class "substandard." And yes, indeed, it gets the job done "most of the time." By the way, the client is thrilled with Vista's Speech Recognition (deaf Leopard). Next . . . .

 

[nekatreven]

This whole thing has been hilarious to me.

A lot of people seem forget though that the original article could have been just taken down and they would have had a much harder time threatening the author's life and job (morons). Good form to leave it up.

I suppose the average reader's evangelical PC views, a few people caught in the distortion field, and a few missed facts made a pretty perfect storm.

In the end if THG's owners and authors want to accept Apple in their hardware world, most of the readers will probably not leave. As long as new Apple products don't dominate the news feeds to ridiculous levels (iphone, that was so stupid), and the opinions and analysis are more evenly biased it might be cool.

Major props for leaving the original article up, and for acknowledging this new study.

 

[magicandy]

Tuan it must have taken a lot of courage to put this up after the last article. I respect that. Bravo.

 

[Guest]

products that have better aesthetics will be more expensive..not just limited to the laptop sector. Just face it people...

 

[Guest]

Well, I have only posted on this board once in all my years of readership, but I for one would like to congratulate Tuan. That's right I said it... The man took what, a 26 page public beating by an internet lynch mob for what appeared to be one opinionated and poorly written article. Everyone makes mistakes, lord knows I have done the all-nighter and turned in a paper or two in my college days that should have been used for toilet paper. but, it's not about the mistake it's about learning from it, and anyone who can take the kind of blatant misguided abuse that he took, and use it to better himself is the kind of person want working for me. So, while I wasn't thrilled with your first article I'm proud of you for taking that atom bomb in the teeth and coming out all the better for it, that shows great strength of character.

 

[zunaro]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Mac pwnz0rz PC, just accept it. *watches post rating head south*[/citation]

=P Are you just saying that to be funny?

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]zunaro[/nom]=P Are you just saying that to be funny?[/citation]
No... I'm serious, can't you tell? :lol:

Who voted positively? Argh, now I'm back to 0

 

[tuannguyen]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated. There's a new article coming down the pipe, where I take a bunch of comments into account and include them right into the article. This way, the article will have several takes from several different users and angles. I think this'll help anyone new to the site as well.

@JimmyJimmington: Apologies for not putting a retraction into the current article. It's already up. This is why I didn't modify the old articles either. What's written is written, I can only move forward with the feedback everyone gave me. The followup article to the one posted today should address your concern.

Going to go out on a limb here and make my direct email available to you all. Feel free to send in any comments/suggestions/more death threats/suicide suggestions:

tuannguyen at bestofmedia dot com.

This way, you guys can directly contribute to content before it even hits the live site. Hope this is a positive step forward.

/ Tuan

 

[caskachan]

HURRR DURRR MACS COST 2X AS PC ... no one knew? wow ?

 

[creepster]

I'd like to see a custom build comparison. Apple charges $250 per 1GB of ram on there Mac pros which is outrageous, charging 250 dollars for 1GB of 800mhz DDR2 is retarded you could get good quality ram for less then 30 dollars per 1GB 800mhz DDR2 from any retailer.

I think my main problem with the Macs is they don't have an enthusiast or power user computer. They go from the Middle/low end iMac which has a built in screen which automatically makes it impractical for a lot of people(since displays last longer then computers). Then you go up to the Mac Pro which is a video editing machine.

there is not a single mac that would be suitable for playing games, the iMac is drastically under powered running a video card 2 generations old and the MacPro runs Xeon processors which don't perform anywhere near well enough in gaming considering the cost plus the fastest gaming graphics card you can put in it is a 8800GT.

Anybody who buys a prebuilt desktop from a retailer is already paying double regardless. The only Dell machines that go for anywhere near there build cost is the low low end machines(sub 500) and apple refuses to sell in that market so you will near see an apple computer anywhere near cost.

 

[arkadi]

I can't see no point it this. to make subjective point you have to compare two comparable products, macbook air vs x300 for example. Mac's pricing parallel to pc baseness class lap tops and workstations. Start models from Lenovo, Dell, Hp and others can cost half of the top models price, but their is not much hardware difference. The price connected only remotely to system spec's their are other things you have to take in to consideration. And the fact is that you have a market for all the products.

 

[Preytor]

What the....
First he makes two articles on a Mac PC vs. a Windows PC. Now he posts this??
I guess the next article will be about linux or something.

 

[neiroatopelcc]

Hmm, the posts here have stopped! everybody else emailing him too? or is that only me?

ps. respect for posting this article, well knowing it'll cause even more comments that may or may not be favorable.

Anyhow, Tuan do read my email about error correction, performace vs costs & software integration.

 

[russki]

Kitty, you're a nasty little instigator fella, aren't you?

 

[Sandbags]

a $550 desktop is not "midrange" it's low end crap, practically disposable. People don't buy Macs in that price range because you can't get a quality system that can handle what most people want to do on a mac in that price range (manage lots of pics, edit video, etc). Even the mini, at more than $700, is hard to find a matched cheaper system for at Dell.com, when you factor in software equivalents for iLife. (Lets face it, if all you want is basic web and e-mail, you have no reason to buy a mac. You're buying it either for the cool factor, it's look, or much more likely, it's SOFTWARE.)

I can make a similar comparison: "Study finds Mercedes sedan cost 2X Hondas" Is this a shock? No!

Toms had a nice article yesterday. Comparing spec for spec, Apple is VERY competitive (and sometimes CHEAPER!). As for upgrade prices, Apple's are ridiculous, then again, so are Dell's and HP's. If you want a nice system, always buy the base and add your own component upgrades separately for half the price or less.

 

[Sandbags]

[citation][nom]gigosaga[/nom]To the general NPD data comments - I agree with you guys. I didn't see a link to the NPD source data but the reports intent may not be the same as we have here - price/performance. That's just sales data. What you should read from that data if simply that lower-end system met the needs of many people. They are perhaps buying computers or laptops for their children back to school, etc. The PC market offers many inexpensive models and Apple does not. NPD's data simply suggest that there is a huge gap in Apple's line up. This is something I believe the writer noticed as he points this out as a weakness in Apple's business model.[/citation]

It's not that people want to buy systems in the low end price range, it is that people can AFFORD to buy systems in that price range. Does BMW sell at $13,000 car? No. Is there a lack of competition in the market? no. Is BMW hurting for cash flow? No. (current market factors aside, we're all hurting on some level).

btw: My wife teaches 4th grade. If you could see what these kids are being asked to do on their home computers, you'd know that a $550 system is NOT a back to school computer. Also, take a look at any major university (or even smaller schools) minimum PC requirements for entering freshmen. Many of them are actually suggesting macs, most are at least requiring dual core systems with 1GB of RAM, many departments in colleges add to the base requirements, and include dedicated hardware for video, or more.

See here Clemson universities requirements: http://www.clemson.edu/ccit/hardware_software/hardware/purchasing/specs.html One of the apple machines is actually the 3rd cheapest in the list! Cheapest machine listed is near $1100, and that's after Dell's custom discount for Clemson students.

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]russki[/nom]Kitty, you're a nasty little instigator fella, aren't you?[/citation]
I have it down to a fine art.

 

[Sandbags]

[citation][nom]creepster[/nom]I'd like to see a custom build comparison. Apple charges $250 per 1GB of ram on there Mac pros which is outrageous, charging 250 dollars for 1GB of 800mhz DDR2 is retarded you could get good quality ram for less then 30 dollars per 1GB 800mhz DDR2 from any retailer.I think my main problem with the Macs is they don't have an enthusiast or power user computer. They go from the Middle/low end iMac which has a built in screen which automatically makes it impractical for a lot of people(since displays last longer then computers). Then you go up to the Mac Pro which is a video editing machine.there is not a single mac that would be suitable for playing games, the iMac is drastically under powered running a video card 2 generations old and the MacPro runs Xeon processors which don't perform anywhere near well enough in gaming considering the cost plus the fastest gaming graphics card you can put in it is a 8800GT. Anybody who buys a prebuilt desktop from a retailer is already paying double regardless. The only Dell machines that go for anywhere near there build cost is the low low end machines(sub 500) and apple refuses to sell in that market so you will near see an apple computer anywhere near cost.[/citation]

1) anyone who buys upgrades direct from the manufacturer is a moron. Buy the parts yourself. Even from Dell they're overpriced...
2) Mac has a BIG enthusiast community, it;s commonly reffered to as Hollywood. Just take a look inside any TV, movie, or advertising studio and you'll find tweaked out macs all over the place.
3) Mac targets the average user, not the low end user, and not the gamer. Less than 10% of people play hard core games on ANY computer, and few of them buy hardware that you can't get in a mac. I beta test and play a LOT of games, but even I have a sub-$200 gaming card. Unless you're a frame rate tweaker, the most popular games (WoW, etc) play VERY well on a mac, under OS X or Windows.
4) people buy Macs not for the hardware, but for iLife and OS X. If you don't want the features of iLife, and don't need "midrange" performance, then go buy a cheap ass system and you'll be happy with it. The hardware, spec for spec, as THG pointed out yesterday, is competitive, and buying upgrades doesn't count since very few people actually do (most Apple sales are in the retail store, not Apple.com, and upgrade options in the store are MUCH more reasonable, if you don't just do them yourself...)

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

Will you morons stop using Dell! Holy shit are you so desperate to not feel like a retard for buying a mac?

 

[decoppel]

[citation][nom]Sandbags[/nom]a $550 desktop is not "midrange" it's low end crap, practically disposable.... etc[/citation]

I'm sorry are you actually this ignorant or is this a joke? Don't answer that I don't want to know.

Building it yourself always yields the best results, but let's be realistic the $599 mini is utter junk, there is no way on this earth that a Mac Mini is going to be a good 'budget' or 'midrange' PC.

Even a Baseline dell has a better performance/price ratio
Inspiron 518
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E4600 (2MB L2, 2.4GHz, 800FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Service Pack 1
Dell S1709W 17" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz (4 DIMM)
320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Dell Entry Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
No Floppy Drive or Media Card Reader
No Modem Option

Better ram, faster processor, bigger HD, a monitor included etc etc.

Don't deny it, Mac's low end/mid range/high end practical computers do not exist.

 

[jimmysmitty]

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]Nah it wasn't like that at all, or at least not suppose to mean that.What I was trying to say is that, Apple's is trying to go after Windows users, and EVEN hard core Windows-based PC gamers. If they want to do that, they seriously have to offer:1. more options2. cheaper prices3. more variety of upgrades4. more partnerships with 3rd party vendors like graphics card makerse5. lower systems that aren't permanently tethered to a display5. lower systems that aren't cramped into a box with no avenue for upgradeThe problem with Apple is that all their affordable gear is locked down. That's a problem./ Tuan[/citation]

Thats not it. They have to offer a widely used API. OpenGL is fine but its not used enough to offer a good reason to move to Mac for gaming. They need a DX API or they will never grab gamers.

I have also heard that the OS (OSX) itself is not optimized like Windows for gaming.