TEC/Peltier CPU Chilled Water Cooling

[4Ryan6]

This water block the Swiftech Apogee 1U - Server water block is $19.95 it has an Acetal Top and a Copper Base Plate, perfect for flow modifying using a Dremel Tool.

The initial base is basically the same as the copper base I am using with the 50mm x 50mm peltiers I run, a little work on your part to modify the flow through the water block and it will be perfect for cold transfer to coolant.

The copper acetal is no problem, same type stuff I've run for 2 years, but this will require flow modification or it will simply freeze up on you.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/swif...ersal-water-block.html#Additional-Information

This is obviously a clear the shelf item especially for the price, once Performance-PCs sells their inventory stock of this, it's gone, so don't wait or you'll loose out period.

 

[Memhorder]

"I'd say the degree of temp control through flowrates would be negligible and difficult to control to any level of accuracy tbh, flow is important obviously but its not something I'd consider as a method of temp control, too slow and it heats up, too fast and it doesnt pick up the heat efficiently enough
Moto"

Ok. I figured it would be a way of fine tuning the temps. I understand that by doing this it would take a little while for any changes. Can or is there a way to control the power going through the TEC then? That would be the best . Cooling the hot side so far is the only way? I just dont want to see any water dripping down the CPU Block.

"This water block the Swiftech Apogee 1U - Server water block is $19.95 it has an Acetal Top and a Copper Base Plate, perfect for flow modifying using a Dremel Tool."

Got one of these on the way along with the Heatsink. Those prices are amazing. Paid more for shipping than the two combined but the whole bill was less than buying just the heat sink any where at regular price. Much appreciated. Probably take close to a month to get here but I'll feel better now mutilating a 20 dollar heatsink. Think I got the last of each Heat sink and CPU Block

 

[CustomBuilt]

Hello Ryan,
Glad to see your rig is still going strong. I, on the other hand am not fairing so well. With me being a first time water cooler and deciding to also chill with a TEC, I am having my fair share of headaches. My rig is finally built and running but I am having problems with the chilled loop. The problem I am having is strange. If I power on my psu for the tec (without the system running) the hot side gets hot and cold side gets cold as expected and I confirm this by touching the noctua base (its hot) and by touching the tec water block (its cold). Now here's where it gets strange. If I turn on my system psu with a jumper and run only my pump (no motherboard power) to cycle the coolant, the water blocks cold side warms to room temp in seconds. I then shut off the system psu and the block becomes cold again. cycle the pump back on again and the block goes room temp again. It's as if the flowing coolant sucks too much cold from the tec and it cant keep up. I am baffled and hope you can help shed some light on this matter.

I am using all wires from the 8 pin EPS line to power this TEC.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THERMOELECTRIC-PELTIER-COOLER-62mm-x-62mm-550W-HIGH-QUALITY-TEC-MODULE-/280580259103?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153e2fd1f

 

[4Ryan6]

Hello Ryan,
Glad to see your rig is still going strong. I, on the other hand am not fairing so well. With me being a first time water cooler and deciding to also chill with a TEC, I am having my fair share of headaches. My rig is finally built and running but I am having problems with the chilled loop. The problem I am having is strange. If I power on my psu for the tec (without the system running) the hot side gets hot and cold side gets cold as expected and I confirm this by touching the noctua base (its hot) and by touching the tec water block (its cold). Now here's where it gets strange. If I turn on my system psu with a jumper and run only my pump (no motherboard power) to cycle the coolant, the water blocks cold side warms to room temp in seconds. I then shut off the system psu and the block becomes cold again. cycle the pump back on again and the block goes room temp again. It's as if the flowing coolant sucks too much cold from the tec and it cant keep up. I am baffled and hope you can help shed some light on this matter.

I am using all wires from the 8 pin EPS line to power this TEC.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THERMOELECTRIC-PELTIER-COOLER-62mm-x-62mm-550W-HIGH-QUALITY-TEC-MODULE-/280580259103?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153e2fd1f

You're not attempting to run everything from one power supply are you?

If you are?, it won't work like that, you need a dedicated power supply to independently power the peltier.

Pictures of your setup would help, helping you?

The peltier you linked 62mm x 62mm 550W Operates from 0-16 volts DC and 0-32 amps just by itself would need to be powered with at least an 800w single 12v rail 60 amp capable PC power supply, if you are using a standard PC power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151108

A quality brand as well, powering peltiers is not a, this will get you by situation as the peltier draws it's powering capability 100% constantly.

So the peltiers constant power draw, needs to be about 60% of the power supplies handling capability.

You need to respond to this post before I say anymore because I don't know what you are actually running you've left out those details?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Sounds to me like he has a separate Psu if you reread it Ry, he makes mention of 'System' Psu which leads me to believe he does in fact hav a separate one for the Tec, that and he uses the Eps line to feed it, But ofc we'll have to wait for response from him
But at C.b, ofc your coldside block warms up to ambient, you have started running room temp water past it and its warming the block/taking the cold into the loop, set it running like that for a while and you should see a gradual drop in the water temp as it equalises to whatever its capability is

Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Sounds to me like he has a separate Psu if you reread it Ry, he makes mention of 'System' Psu which leads me to believe he does in fact hav a separate one for the Tec, that and he uses the Eps line to feed it, But ofc we'll have to wait for response from him
But at C.b, ofc your coldside block warms up to ambient, you have started running room temp water past it and its warming the block/taking the cold into the loop, set it running like that for a while and you should see a gradual drop in the water temp as it equalises to whatever its capability is

Moto

Yeah, I think he is running 2 power supplies, read that after I had already posted, it would help if he would clarify with some pictures.

 

[CustomBuilt]

Sounds to me like he has a separate Psu if you reread it Ry, he makes mention of 'System' Psu which leads me to believe he does in fact hav a separate one for the Tec, that and he uses the Eps line to feed it, But ofc we'll have to wait for response from him
But at C.b, ofc your coldside block warms up to ambient, you have started running room temp water past it and its warming the block/taking the cold into the loop, set it running like that for a while and you should see a gradual drop in the water temp as it equalises to whatever its capability is

Moto

Yeah, I think he is running 2 power supplies, read that after I had already posted, it would help if he would clarify with some pictures.

Yes indeed, I am running 2 PSU's.
I am sorry for my lack of information. I should have replied to my earlier posts on this thread back on page 6. I have copied and pasted a post from that page below.


4Ryan6 said:
ä

CustomBuilt said:
äSorry, I couldn't resist.

Hello Ryan, I first off want to say congrats to you on your success with this endeavor! I have been following this thread for several months now while slowly buying parts for my very first water cooled build. I have been a system builder for about 15 years now but have never taken the plunge to water cooling till now. I am still in the process of ordering parts and fabricating parts for my first water/chilled system, which leads me to some questions I have for you about the TEG I am considering buying.

First off I have a 1000watt PS with 70amps on the single 12v rail which will be dedicated to the TEG only.
Secondly, this is the TEG I am considering buying.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280580259103?_trksid=p2055119.m...

My question to you is: will these two work together in harmony or will one destroy the other? (burnout)

knowing that the theoretical max of the 8pin EPS line is 28amps@336watts, will the TEG rated @ 32amps and 550watts try to draw to much from the power supply and burn it out? or itself?
http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors....

TEG spec @16 volt is 32amp @ 550watt max.
I will be running 12v to the TEG so I should expect a max of 24amp @ 412watt. Is this correct?
412watt being max dissipation?

If you can enlighten me on this, It would be much appreciated.
Thank You.

Your 12v amperage estimation of 24a looks right to me and the 412w wattage is very close as well.

To power it the power supply you have is plenty capable very close to mine.

Wiring wise to keep from overloading the cabling I used the 8 pin M/B connector which is 14g wire, consisting of 4 12v yellow positive and 4 black 12v ground, I combined 2 of the yellow for the positive lead wire to TEC #1 and 2 of the black for the negative.

I used 12g stranded wire to run from the power supply connections to the peltier connections.

Since I have 2 TECs I used the other 2 yellow and the other 2 black from the 8 pin connector for the positive and negative to the 2nd TEC, they don't even get warm, they have zero problems handling the TECs.

My question to you is, that peltier is huge 62mm x 62mm, how do you plan cooling the hot side and collecting the useable cold from the cold side?



This will be the water block used to pickup cold.
http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/Water-Block-As...;jsessionid=A549EEF2EFE01D7D5E4140D692668E1B.m1plqscsfapp06

This will be the cold/hot plate used.
http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/Cold-Plate-w-M...;jsessionid=A549EEF2EFE01D7D5E4140D692668E1B.m1plqscsfapp06

Then I have a Noctua NH-D14 that will sit atop the cold/hot plate.

For the reservoir, I am using dual PVC pipe. one 6 inch and one 4 inch. The 4" will be capped at each end and then wrapped with owens corning insulation and then put inside a painted 6" tube for aesthetic purposes. The 6" tube will then be mounted to the outside of a steel reinforced Lian-LI case. I am planning on this build to be a single case unit which is why I am mounting it to the outside of the case along with the water block assembly. This Lian-Li case also has room for two power supply units. One at the top and one at the bottom. I am a PC builder who is concerned with aesthetics and therefore will not be covering up my acrylic water lines with insulation. Only one line will be insulated and that will be the one from water block to insulated reservoir. Please keep in mind that my goals differ from yours in that, I am only wanting to achieve "better than water alone" temps, Somewhere between ambient watercooling and sub-ambient and I will be happy. If I achieve sub ambient with this setup, then im just that much happier. I believe that with this large of a TEC and this style of "zig zag water flow" water block, my goals are within reason. Your thoughts?

BTW: My GPU's will be on a separate conventional RAD and fan loop.

Full system specs:
CASE: Lian-Li PC-A70F
PSU1: Corsair AX1200i (system)
PSU2: Ultra X3 1000
CPU: 3970x
MB: ASUS Sabertooth X79
MEM: 16gb G-Skill Ripjaws 1866 @ 8-9-9-24
SSD: 2x Samsung 256gb 850 pro's in raid 0
HDD: WD Black SATAIII 1TB
SOUND: Creative Sound Blaster Z
GPU's: 2x GTX 690's
Blu-Ray: LG
MONITOR: BenQ XL2420T 120hz.
KEYBOARD: Logitech G510
MOUSE: Logitech G700
SPEAKERS: Logitech Z906 5.1 500 watt
OS: Win7 Pro x64

CPU WB: EK Supremacy EVO plexi
GPU WB's: XSPC Razor
MOSFET WB: Alphacool
RAD: Alphacool NexXxoS ST60x280mm
RES: XSPC Dual bay
PUMPS: 2x D5's
FANS: Cougar CFD14HBB
TUBING: PETG 3/8x1/2
FITTINGS: Monsoon Economy and alphacool

 

[4Ryan6]

@ CustomBuilt, You are loosing an extreme amount of chilled cold to ambient, the only tubing I see insulated is from the water block cold output to the reservoir, all the tubing inside the computer is exposed to ambient airflow with the case cooling fans, is the reservoir itself insulated at all?

The insulation of the loop is to preserve the chilled cold you're producing, all of my lines are insulated, and my reservoir is insulated as well.

 

[4Ryan6]

ok, now do they make tec's custom sized..cause i need one shape of a 6 inch pipe with hot side on inside, cold on outside so i can convert wood stove into pwr generator as well as garage heater. pipe should be either in small sections or full 10ft-20ft pipe with high amp leads coming off it to pwr converter so it can pwr garage tools.

DougLYX, This thread has absolutely nothing to do with your last post, why don't you go start your own thread but you'd best be careful what you put in it!

I've reported your last posts that contained false information to the moderators and your posts disappeared, and now you're guilty of posting off topic with this last post.

Since you cannot seem to comprehend, that this forum has rules, or that this thread is covering chilled water cooling of a computer, anything like powering your freaking garage tools is completely off topic!

Every time you post in this forum you also agree to these rules!

So read the rules sir and go start your own thread!

********************************************************************************************

By the way, a peltiers hot or cold side depends on the flow of electricity, to reverse the hot and cold, reverse the positive and negative electrical connection to the peltier and the hot/cold reverses.

ArthurH, discovered that the hard way when he accidentally set his Hot/Cold up backwards, but instead of completely redoing the setup he simply reversed the polarity, and he was in business.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Real Dr Who solution hehe 🙂 now wheres my Sonic thingummyjig? Like the pics Cb, that tube reminds me of Camo facepaint tubes from the day... I believe the 4" tube is inside that Ry so kinda insulated but yeah, get the rest wrapped up 🙂
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Real Dr Who solution hehe 🙂 now wheres my Sonic thingummyjig? Like the pics Cb, that tube reminds me of Camo facepaint tubes from the day... I believe the 4" tube is inside that Ry so kinda insulated but yeah, get the rest wrapped up 🙂
Moto

I'm pretty sure that's a 4" PVC Schedule 40 you're seeing in the picture?

If he has a tube inside of that, it would have to be a 3" or less and that even insulated between the 2 walls with expanding foam would seriously limit the coolant volume.

From my own past tests in the Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling thread you need close to 1/2 gallon chilled coolant to use as the cold storage buffer, to be seriously effective.

I have similar plans to run a 6" outer and a 4" inner with expanding foam filling the wall gap between the 2 pipes, that will allow the same volume I am presently running with much better insulation and cold preservation.

The only problem is the finished results will be one huge reservoir, and since my goal is to house everything inside one huge case, someday?, that new reservoir will be an inconvenient fit factor over an already large amount to get into a case.

Maybe CB will clarify what we're looking at?

 

[DougLYX]

sorry ryan, my brain rambles on at times.
i'll remove myself from this thread, since my information on tec usage is 10yrs out of date.

 

[CustomBuilt]

Real Dr Who solution hehe 🙂 now wheres my Sonic thingummyjig? Like the pics Cb, that tube reminds me of Camo facepaint tubes from the day... I believe the 4" tube is inside that Ry so kinda insulated but yeah, get the rest wrapped up 🙂
Moto

I'm pretty sure that's a 4" PVC Schedule 40 you're seeing in the picture?

If he has a tube inside of that, it would have to be a 3" or less and that even insulated between the 2 walls with expanding foam would seriously limit the coolant volume.

From my own past tests in the Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling thread you need close to 1/2 gallon chilled coolant to use as the cold storage buffer, to be seriously effective.

I have similar plans to run a 6" outer and a 4" inner with expanding foam filling the wall gap between the 2 pipes, that will allow the same volume I am presently running with much better insulation and cold preservation.

The only problem is the finished results will be one huge reservoir, and since my goal is to house everything inside one huge case, someday?, that new reservoir will be an inconvenient fit factor over an already large amount to get into a case.

Maybe CB will clarify what we're looking at?

I will paste one more time.

For the reservoir, I am using dual PVC pipe. one 6 inch and one 4 inch. The 4" will be capped at each end and then wrapped with owens corning insulation and then put inside a painted 6" tube for aesthetic purposes. The 6" tube will then be mounted to the outside of a steel reinforced Lian-LI case. I am planning on this build to be a single case unit which is why I am mounting it to the outside of the case along with the water block assembly. This Lian-Li case also has room for two power supply units. One at the top and one at the bottom. I am a PC builder who is concerned with aesthetics and therefore will not be covering up my acrylic water lines with insulation. Only one line will be insulated and that will be the one from water block to insulated reservoir. Please keep in mind that my goals differ from yours in that, I am only wanting to achieve "better than water alone" temps, Somewhere between ambient watercooling and sub-ambient and I will be happy. If I achieve sub ambient with this setup, then im just that much happier. I believe that with this large of a TEC and this style of "zig zag water flow" water block, my goals are within reason. Your thoughts?

 

[4Ryan6]

I will paste one more time.

For the reservoir, I am using dual PVC pipe. one 6 inch and one 4 inch. The 4" will be capped at each end and then wrapped with owens corning insulation and then put inside a painted 6" tube for aesthetic purposes. The 6" tube will then be mounted to the outside of a steel reinforced Lian-LI case. I am planning on this build to be a single case unit which is why I am mounting it to the outside of the case along with the water block assembly. This Lian-Li case also has room for two power supply units. One at the top and one at the bottom. I am a PC builder who is concerned with aesthetics and therefore will not be covering up my acrylic water lines with insulation. Only one line will be insulated and that will be the one from water block to insulated reservoir. Please keep in mind that my goals differ from yours in that, I am only wanting to achieve "better than water alone" temps, Somewhere between ambient watercooling and sub-ambient and I will be happy. If I achieve sub ambient with this setup, then im just that much happier. I believe that with this large of a TEC and this style of "zig zag water flow" water block, my goals are within reason. Your thoughts?

Obviously I missed that!

Then with that being your goal and purposely not insulating the acrylic tubing you should have the results you were after.

So CPU load temperature wise how is it performing?

 

[4Ryan6]

@ CustomBuilt, Does the top come off the 6" to access the 4" interior?

Or is it completely sealed?

 

[Memhorder]

CustomBuilt. That's a very nice plumbing job you've done there. Looks good.

You guys? How long does it usually take for the reservoir to get cold? I'm sure when you first fire it up the water temps are close to ambient and I'm just wondering if that's the case. The block would be ambient until the TEC got the 1/2 gallon chilled but like Ryan said those un-insulated lines would hamper things a little if not completely neutralize any changes to temps.

I mean CustomBuilt, Is that a RAD for your GPU's on the front and is it intake?

 

[CustomBuilt]

I will paste one more time.

For the reservoir, I am using dual PVC pipe. one 6 inch and one 4 inch. The 4" will be capped at each end and then wrapped with owens corning insulation and then put inside a painted 6" tube for aesthetic purposes. The 6" tube will then be mounted to the outside of a steel reinforced Lian-LI case. I am planning on this build to be a single case unit which is why I am mounting it to the outside of the case along with the water block assembly. This Lian-Li case also has room for two power supply units. One at the top and one at the bottom. I am a PC builder who is concerned with aesthetics and therefore will not be covering up my acrylic water lines with insulation. Only one line will be insulated and that will be the one from water block to insulated reservoir. Please keep in mind that my goals differ from yours in that, I am only wanting to achieve "better than water alone" temps, Somewhere between ambient watercooling and sub-ambient and I will be happy. If I achieve sub ambient with this setup, then im just that much happier. I believe that with this large of a TEC and this style of "zig zag water flow" water block, my goals are within reason. Your thoughts?

Obviously I missed that!

Then with that being your goal and purposely not insulating the acrylic tubing you should have the results you were after.

So CPU load temperature wise how is it performing?

Well, kind of.
if I keep the cpu under load, the water in the res gradually warms. I was looking for "balance" under load. It will take some time to figure my min max thermal threshold at different load levels. the pics below are @4ghz. with a 21c water temp. I have a 40mm nord tec im thinking of adding to the loop.

idle
http://www.servimg.com/view/15488840/40

IBT standard load. I really don't like seeing 11 degree difference from 1 core to another.
http://www.servimg.com/view/15488840/41

 

[CustomBuilt]

@ CustomBuilt, Does the top come off the 6" to access the 4" interior?

Yes indeed.
http://www.servimg.com/view/15488840/42

 

[CustomBuilt]

CustomBuilt. That's a very nice plumbing job you've done there. Looks good.

You guys? How long does it usually take for the reservoir to get cold? I'm sure when you first fire it up the water temps are close to ambient and I'm just wondering if that's the case. The block would be ambient until the TEC got the 1/2 gallon chilled but like Ryan said those un-insulated lines would hamper things a little if not completely neutralize any changes to temps.

I mean CustomBuilt, Is that a RAD for your GPU's on the front and is it intake?

Yes, the 280 rad is a separate loop for the GPU's. I have my case airflow setup for back to front airflow which means that rad is exhausting out the front of the case. I am very impressed with this alphacool rad. I feared 4 gpu's might be too much for it but they idle at 25-26 degree's and a single pass of heaven benchmark yielded a high of 56 degrees while utilizing all 4 gpu's.

 

[4Ryan6]

How long does it usually take for the reservoir to get cold?

It usually takes close to 30 minutes to reach a 12c idle cold equilibrium but it continues to drop after that but slower until after about 45 minutes it reaches 10c and has gone as low as 9c ~ 8c, depending on the ambient room temperature.

I'm sure when you first fire it up the water temps are close to ambient and I'm just wondering if that's the case.

Depending on how long the system has been turned off the water temperature could be the same as ambient room temperature, it is never above ambient but sometimes equal to it, the reservoir temperature starts dropping immediately after the machine is energized.

When first powered up the temperature drop of the water in the reservoir is fast at first, and as it approaches it's equilibrium the cold slows in building, until it reaches it's normal run temperature.

 

[4Ryan6]

@ CustomBuilt, Does the top come off the 6" to access the 4" interior?

Yes indeed.
http://www.servimg.com/view/15488840/42

Two questions from seeing the picture?

Is that green dye in the coolant or are you running anti-freeze?

Do you have any type of insulation between the 4 and 6 inch pipe walls, I cannot see any in the picture but it may be below visual range of the picture?

 

[4Ryan6]

Update::::::!

Smile = Success!

I added a 3rd TEC assembly exactly like the 2 in the chiller that power up when the computer does but this one is on the output line to the CPU, it is tied into the water line but completely independent on it's own power supply and it's cooling fan is controlled by that same power supply.

Why?

The only program that could cause an increase in water coolant temperature was Intel Burn Test, now I can run IBT at whatever water temperature I want to test at, and it stays there!

Word!, Word!, Moonwalk!, Word!, Moonwalk!, Hand Jive!, Break Dance! :lol:

The 3rd unit is only for stress testing, or if I want to drop my coolant temperature very fast!

Yes, I'm ecstatically happy!

Some ideas and experiments just don't work and it is a real bummer when that happens after all the work invested in it!

So when it is 100% successful!

Now I'm hungry, time to scrounge up something to eat!

 

[Memhorder]

Update::::::!

Smile = Success!

I added a 3rd TEC assembly exactly like the 2 in the chiller that power up when the computer does but this one is on the output line to the CPU, it is tied into the water line but completely independent on it's own power supply and it's cooling fan is controlled by that same power supply.

Why?

The only program that could cause an increase in water coolant temperature was Intel Burn Test, now I can run IBT at whatever water temperature I want to test at, and it stays there!

Wow. That's awesome. Good Job Man!

 

[4Ryan6]

Thanks Memhorder, I added some more comment your quote missed.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Well ain't that somethin'..........:-D made up to read that Ry I really am mate, power is nothing without control and you have achieved control to a level I can only aspire to at the moment, I think your chip is in for some serious abuse lol but as Glad0s would say, Its for Science 🙂
Congratulations my friend amd keep pushing the limits!!
Moto