TEC/Peltier CPU Chilled Water Cooling

Page 15 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915


I considered that myself and was researching the lowest flow restriction I could snag, decided on the perfect set for my setup with 4 tubing runs, then priced them out!

Not the Mama!

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNR4hKbSH7I"][/video]

For what 4 male/female quick disconnect sets cost, My want was cured! I can live without them! :)

We all have our priorities of what we deem is important like many swear by installing a built in drain tube, I never have and never will, it is just not necessary.

I would love to have quick disconnects don't get me wrong they're just not that high on the priority list for me.

Plus I don't have to move my setup either, it would have been more of a novelty than anything else for me.

 
Memhorder

Memhorder

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2014
1,208
0
19,860
oh man..........:lol: I almost forgot that show existed.......holy that's so retro. Love it. Anyway yeah I was thinking of these puppies.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/koolance-qd3-female-quick-disconnect-no-spill-coupling-compression-for-13mm-x-16mm-1-2in-x-5-8in-black.html

This is female but you get the idea. This with neoprene tubing. Just so I can dismantle the rig for spring cleaning. I'm just wondering how spill proof they really are......

It's also seeming that I'm going to need multiple TEC's. Do you guys think that with a TDP of 220w I'm going to need something over that figure? I just don't think those piddly 100w TEC's are gonna cut it. Might have to be 253w x 2

 
arthurh

arthurh

Distinguished
Dec 28, 2002
1,068
0
19,360


Way to go Ry!!!! Congratulation's!

 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915
Update: This is more of an observation than anything else, I had some leftover Christmas money burning a hole in my pocket so I ordered an EK Supremacy EVO Acetal/Copper water block to replace the XSPC Raystorm I am presently running cooling the CPU itself.

From reviews and tests the EK Supremacy EVO is still the top performing CPU water block, in most tests beating the XSPC Raystorms' cooling performance by 5c, additionally with lower flow restriction as well.

I cannot imagine actually getting a 5c drop with my chilled water cooling as it by itself is very good, but I did see a direct cooling drop between the XSPC RASA and the Raystorm, so who knows, we'll see.

I haven't swapped it out yet, so no cooling performance results to share and I said this was an observation!

The observation is regarding the quality of the EK, which IMO is excellent!

With all my testing and water block modifying I have seen the innards and the outers of every water block I've had my hands on and the design and product quality is very impressive regarding the EK.

The independent swappable Intel or AMD water injector, focusing the water flow directly over the CPU is quite ingenious, and if it cools as well as it is made, it may very well produce a 5c difference?

That remains to be seen, but I have no regrets buying this EK water block, if this is just a preview of the quality of the rest of their products, then I'd have to say you cannot go wrong buying EK products.

I still prefer the copper line and not the nickel plated, but that is because of the steam distilled water coolant I am using, if you go the nickel plated route you should also use their recommended coolant.

I hope all is well with everyone! Ry

Edit: Thanks for the congrats, ArthurH :)
 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915




The above screen shots are of my overclocking of my Q9550, which were MIA but I finally found them and those overclocks were done with air cooling, I would have loved having this chilled water cooling back then! :)
 
truegenius

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED
Oct 22, 2011
2,733
5
21,165


i have an idea/modification to this loop, but since i came late to the party (so many pages, so many links, so many images (choking down my super fast 192Kbps internet))
so sorry if its already discussed :D
what if we run it like this
non Insulated reservoir > Pump > TEC1 > (using insulated pipe) > CPU > radiator > Return to non Insulated Reservoir
this way, we are taking water from reservoir, then cooling it below ambient using tec, then sending it to cpu which makes it hot, then send this hot water to radiator to cool it to near ambient then send it to reservoir then send it to tec to cool it below ambient and this cycle goes on

this way we get these advantage
1) we only need to insulate tec to cpu pipe because this will be carrying cooled water (below ambient temp)
2) we can reduce power requirements further because we can turn the tec off during normal usage and radiator will do the normal cooling which it can easily handle by itself
3) since we used radiator to drop temp of water thus we can run small capacity tec to further cool it down because now we will be dealing with much cooler water than we would be doing with cpu > tec setup
 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915


Hi truegenius, I actually did use a radiator in the loop at one point logically thinking exactly what you're proposing. The results were the radiator actually warmed the chilled water countering the chilled water effect.

You need to realize the radiator is actually a static heat exchanger and can be used for various purposes if you take a car for example which normally has two radiators, one (main engine radiator) cools the car and the other (heater core radiator), heats the inside compartment of the car.

They are both radiators used for completely different purposes.

A radiator used to cool a computer gets it's cooling from the ambient air, if hotter water is flowing through the radiator than the ambient air the radiator cools as close to ambient as it is capable of doing effectively dropping the water temperature close to ambient.

If the water flowing through the radiator is cooler than ambient the radiators role is reversed and it only has the ambient which is warmer so it will heat the water as close to ambient as it can, thus countering the cold the TEC assembly is creating.

I learned this the hard way because I actually experimented with it and then went on to try and understand why it didn't work, I hope that helps you.

The discovery was actually made in the Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling thread the spoiler below contains that information.

The Pics Below are a Lesson Learned the Hard Way!

This is part of my learning process, I'm sharing this with you all, however the pictures below are not presently in use at all regarding the project, they are a part of the learning process journey. The Rad Box is a much more efficient cooling means for the GPUs, and is fully operational and in use. This project has been a long road of discovery and the things I have learned, I am sharing here in this thread, so if any of you decide to use this cooling solution, you'll have this information for reference.

Just cooling the CPU I was using 6 jugs total, that clarified is at the most 2 jugs in the cooler, 2 completely frozen in the freezer (The next to be swapped out), and 2 being frozen in the freezer.

Typical daily use

If I was just surfing the net and such, 1 jug in the morning, 1 jug in the evening, would keep me around 15c.

After adding the GPUs to the cooling loop, the added heat to run the same 15c temperature gaming, required 2 jugs for each change out, and forced me to change the 6 jug rotation to 10 jug, increasing to 2 jugs in the morning, 2 jugs around noon, and 2 jugs in the evening.

Gaming is a serious heat increase with the GPUs added to the mix, with an overclocked Sandy Bridge K series CPU.

Keep in mind these jugs are only 2/3rds filled because expansion of the water freezing will split the jugs open if completely filled, additionally freezing and refreezing stresses the jugs and they'll only freeze and refreeze approximately 10 times and begin to leak, that's why I use distilled water in the jugs so a leak will not contaminate the water.

When I added the 2 GPUs to the cooling to meet my cooling needs I did another modification pictured below and split the return line to the cooler and added 2 radiators in the loop I already had on hand from previous water cooling loops as a side cooling option.

SmallRoutingValve.png


SmallView1.png


SmallFullView.png


SmallView2.png


SmallLinesEnteringCooler.png


SmallLinesinCooler.png


Using the radiator loop itself for the total cooling took me back to closed loop water cooling performance which I was never satisfied with in the first place. It also brought new problems to the table, the water temperature in the cooler rose to 26c, 3c above ambient, and was the perfect environment for mildew to begin forming under the cooler lid.

I quickly aborted that idea, cleaned off the lid, closed the radiator line off and went back 100% to the ice cooling.

There were no problems with the water itself in the cooler, just the air space above the water inside the cooler, was the perfect temperature range to support mildew growth inside the cooler, with the water temperatures below ambient, that problem was non existent in the cooler, it started from the increased water temperature.

So I needed a cooling solution for the GPUs themselves, putting them on a traditional closed loop with the smallest amount of air possible in the reservoir, seemed the most viable solution, and when toying with the idea of how to best accomplish that, I had not considered a Rad Box until seeing Moto's, and decided that was the best route to take, Thanks Moto!

Using a Rad Box for the GPUs returned my Ice Cooling of the CPU back to the way it was in the beginning, which has brought my ice use back to the original 6 jugs being cycled from the freezer to the cooler.

Here's a major actual fact learned from this!

Using radiators in a chilled water setup is a bad idea, Period!, (The radiators have a reverse effect and heat the chilled water attempting to bring it back up to ambient!)

Let me say that again!

Using radiators in a chilled water setup is a bad idea, Period!, (The radiators have a reverse effect and heat the chilled water attempting to bring it back up to ambient!)

One more time!

Using radiators in a chilled water setup is a bad idea, Period!, (The radiators have a reverse effect and heat the chilled water attempting to bring it back up to ambient!)

 
truegenius

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED
Oct 22, 2011
2,733
5
21,165
i see, i was trying to cut cost but compromised cooling

i was thinking that peltier will bring down the temp of water below ambient and then cpu will push it above ambient so that radiator can do cooling instead of heating but cpu can only heat water above ambient if it is running hotter than ambient that means my idea is not good if we want to run below ambient. Though my idea can work as a booster cooling to keep cpu as close as ambient with low cost, less modification and power consumption :whistle:

BTW, since you and moto are trying many mods, have you tried to make some custom carbon fibre case :D this way you can design your cabinet according to your needs or mods like separate compartment for insulated reservoir and heatsink, it will be lite weight and do i need to say that it will look cool ;)
looks like raw materials will be easily available at your place at cheap price
 
Motopsychojdn

Motopsychojdn

Illustrious
Jan 26, 2010
11,746
3
41,960
I am keeping an eye on hydrographic dipping for a project I have in mind but its top secret until its live hehe, and as youve discovered, once you get so far with cooling then costcutting isnt an option, quite the reverse in fact, the further you go down this rabbithole you more youll see diminishing returns on investment but the pull of that extra 2'c drop justifies a five hundred quid wallet evac hehe :)
Moto
 
truegenius

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED
Oct 22, 2011
2,733
5
21,165




let me describe my experience of reading that page
i was reading that thread and viewing images , and excitement was increasing with every page turn
but then suddenly thread went dead all of a sudden :eek:
i even tried to search more build like this even videos ( yeah video :p )
but only found 1 video of carbon fibre warped case of ncix pc vesta :cry: and felt like below described experience
but then i ran counter strike and killed few hundred terrorists and now i am feeling good :miam: :vip:

its like you are enjoying with your girlfriend :hot: and then suddenly she got a call and said that she have to go urgently and left you in the middle
me: just 5 minute sweetheart, i am about to done :hot:
she: no, have to go urgently, next time
me : :peur: ( lets search some videos :whistle: )

i hope moto will not leave in between :p


i was thinking something like this
a clean secret cabinet cum computer table
but it will look good only when our components are high end
we can reserve some extra space on sides or below monitor to hide other things (if they spoil look) and extra cables
( thats all i can do with paint and my painting skills :cheese: )
 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915
@ truegenius

It looks like you're more interested in building for show than actual cooling performance?

This thread is about Peltier/TEC controlled below ambient water cooling which allows higher stable overclocks, and the cooling this thread covers works, that is the entire reason for sharing this duplicatable information with others.

It has been duplicated by one other forum member ArthurH, and I was in hopes he would have been a constant presence in this thread since his build was completed, sharing his discoveries the cooling has allowed for him, which is a validation or a 2nd witness to what duplicating this chilled water cooling solution can and will do, if the reader chose to duplicate it for themselves.

(But what I had hoped for and what's actually happened has not come to fruition, but life rarely deals the cards we expect or hope for, it is usually the cards we don't want, so I am sure ArthurH has his reasons!)

Peltier/TEC chilled water cooling may not be the prettiest cooling setup on the planet, and definitely is not for everyday Joe, because it's not portable, it is active cooling requiring electricity to operate, requires a lot of work and hands on skill to assemble it all, and is not a cheap cooling solution, but it is very effective and a constant performer.

There's been a lot of ideas that have been presented not only in this thread but the Exploring Below Ambient Cooling thread as well and 99% of the ideas were just talk and never carried on to completion, so it's not uncommon to see ideas that are nothing more than an idea and they never come to fruition.

If you do decide to continue on with your project then you should start a build thread of it and supply a link to it, and allow this thread to stay on topic.

Thank You, Ryan

I am not meaning this as rude, just trying to keep this thread on topic.
 
truegenius

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED
Oct 22, 2011
2,733
5
21,165
:sweat: ok
was only thinking that we anyway need to do many modification to case to fit these tec cooling thus why not just design case as per our requirements and to keep chilled reservoir away from board and gpu pcb (to avoid accidental leakage of condensed water
btw i won't be doing anything like this in near future (maybe after some year when i will get this much money)
so, emm, never mind :/
 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915


I fully understand where you're coming from isolating the chilled water cooling from the other components that's why all my cooling is housed inside or side mounted to another computer case, with only the coolant tubing lines entering my operational unit going straight to the CPU and GPU water blocks.

 
CustomBuilt

CustomBuilt

Distinguished
Jul 23, 2006
17
0
18,510


Yes and no. that tec is rated on pMAX not qMAX like most tec's are rated. That tec is actually only capable of 270 watts of heat removal (qMAX) in perfect conditions. my i73970x 150 watt cpu at stock speeds with c states enabled does well as far as temps go, but under load or overclocked the the tec cant keep up and the temps gradually rise.

I am currently in the process of revamping my chilled loop. I am going to use two 400 watt qMAX tec's that will have their hot sides cooled with water using an alphacool 360 monsta rad and delta fans aka (jet engines). those fans will be hooked to a lamptron cf525 fan controller to keep them quiet when needed.

I came across a truly great forum for tec cooling and have learned more there than all other websites combined. The admin/owner of the site has even written a software called tec calculator for figuring the right tec for the project your doing. Its free to download and I encourage everyone who frequents this thread to check out that forum, you will be enlightened!

Forum
http://tecpeltier.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19

tec calculator
http://thermo-electric-cooling.com/pic/TEC_Cal.zip

 
Memhorder

Memhorder

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2014
1,208
0
19,860


Those Deltas's are great. Currently using a pair on this H100i. You can feel the air 3-4 feet above the case and that's pushing through the Rad and the little holes on top of the case on start up. Cores are around 45 c while gaming. Headphones are a must :pt1cable: But I do like hearing it ramp up
Thanks a lot for the link. Very interesting and pretty much answers all the questions above and some. Now I can make some informative decisions as I collect without spamming this thread. So far....... heat sink, CPU block and case are in my possession. Still got a few hundred to spend on UPS's before the rain comes. Need tubing, Power supply, TEC. Think I got everything for res. I want thermometers as well. Anyway thanks again got some reading to do. Have fun guys!
 
4Ryan6

4Ryan6

Champion
Apr 14, 2002
20,603
6
52,915
Nice link Custombuilt, more in depth than the link posted in the beginning of this thread I personally suggest using both as the one linked in the thread does cover dew points.

I've personally researched every TEC resource out there and many hard core TECers still tell me my cooling solution won't work and I cannot cool the hot side of the TEC with air cooling, and if I'm not insulating my M/B and going for below zero temperatures I'm wasting my time and money, blah, blah, blah.

Thankfully I did not listen to them and continued with my own experimentation, as far as I am concerned my goals of below ambient cooling were achieved, because there is a temperature range below ambient and above the dew point, which is extremely effective in cooling CPUs designed to operate in an ambient cooled environment.

And as Gomer Pyle would say, Surprise!, Surprise!, Surprise!, all the CPUs are designed to operate in an ambient cooled environment.

Unfortunately most have the brain lock thinking that condensation starts immediately when temperature begins dropping below ambient and that's not true, so there is an explorable cooling range below ambient and above condensation, where traditional radiator water cooling cannot go.

Personally I don't subscribe to all the information in both of the links, I used the information I needed and discarded what was irrelevant, and designed this cooling solution to share with others, that uses water cooling components purchasable at any water cooling vendor like FrozenCPU, Performance-PCs, Xoxide, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom