Upgrading classes

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:37:21 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Erol K. Bayburt" <ErolB1@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:fvv0615midsrmttqdpqqocbrgcc46582gp@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:25:32 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
>> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:41:33 -0700, "Shawn Wilson"
>>><Ikonoqlast@yahoo.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>>
>>>> Sure, as a starting character he was a 1st level Burglar once he started
>>>> on
>>>> an adventure.
>>>
>>>You are aware that the rules don't allow trading classes in for other
>>>classes except in certain, carefully explained, circumstances, right?
>>>
>>>More reasonable is that he's a Commoner-1 and after a bit of
>>>adventuring he becomes a commoner-1/rogue-1. What's so hard about
>>>that?
>>
>> I'd like to make the case that he's an aristocrat-1, and that he
>> levels up to aristocrat-1/rogue-1 after he kills that spider in
>> Mirkwood.
>
>He gets nothing for the goblins or Gollum?

He gets xp for the trolls, goblins, and Gollum, but not enough to
level up until he kills the Mirkwood spider.




--
Erol K. Bayburt
ErolB1@aol.com
 
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On 17 Apr 2005 14:40:11 -0700, "Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> scribed into
the ether:

>
>Matt Frisch wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2005 13:03:54 -0700, "Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> scribed
>into
>> the ether:
>>
>> >
>> >Matt Frisch wrote:
>> >
>> >> >b) so one NPC class is somehow supperior to another?
>> >>
>> >> Name for me one meaningful way that the Commoner class is better
>than
>> >any
>> >> other class in the game.
>> >
>> >Irrelevant. they have better numbers, sure, but I don't see how
>that
>> >makes them innately supperior.
>>
>> Then you have serious issues.
>
>If you say so.

The game says so too.

> igh numbers represent something, though, and you don't
>always want that somehting in an NPC.

That's blatant backpedaling and you damn well know it. Your quote,
helpfully supplied up above, does not say "So one NPC class makes for
better characters than another?". Your question was not asked in
roleplaying terms, and it received a mechanical answer. You are just wrong
and are for some reason not retracting.
 
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"Chad Lubrecht" <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qthu51d229gs5nt8mr4g3vvk18gve4dvq4@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:41:56 GMT, Keith Davies
> <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>
> >Chad Lubrecht <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Why would they do that, fighting monsters and looting dungeons isn't
> >> commoner work. It's adventurer work, they should be taking the PC
> >> classes.
> >
> >If they make a career of it it's certainly advisable. OTOH, if they
are
> >farmers and never receive combat training, it makes more sense (from a
> >modeling perspective) to give them Commoner levels.
>
> If fighting monsters and looting dungeons is the primary source of
> experience, then I would say that yes they have made a career of it.

That argument reeks of stupidity. It is entirely feasible that *one*
monster raid or lair purge will provide as much or more experience than 20
years toiling in the field or combatting bad weather or blights. Please
explain how that one raid versus 20 years constitutes a career.
 
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"Erol K. Bayburt" <ErolB1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:edc761lp6nhae3sdivrt74poc7vsrg7s6q@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:37:21 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Erol K. Bayburt" <ErolB1@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:fvv0615midsrmttqdpqqocbrgcc46582gp@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:25:32 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
>>> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:41:33 -0700, "Shawn Wilson"
>>>><Ikonoqlast@yahoo.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>>>
>>>>> Sure, as a starting character he was a 1st level Burglar once he
>>>>> started
>>>>> on
>>>>> an adventure.
>>>>
>>>>You are aware that the rules don't allow trading classes in for other
>>>>classes except in certain, carefully explained, circumstances, right?
>>>>
>>>>More reasonable is that he's a Commoner-1 and after a bit of
>>>>adventuring he becomes a commoner-1/rogue-1. What's so hard about
>>>>that?
>>>
>>> I'd like to make the case that he's an aristocrat-1, and that he
>>> levels up to aristocrat-1/rogue-1 after he kills that spider in
>>> Mirkwood.
>>
>>He gets nothing for the goblins or Gollum?
>
> He gets xp for the trolls, goblins, and Gollum, but not enough to
> level up until he kills the Mirkwood spider.

That is a stingy GM, there.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
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Will Green wrote:
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
> > "Will Green" <will_j_green@yXaXhXoXoX.com> wrote in message
> > news😛LE7e.3556$716.3525@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> >>>Commoners don't fight monsters and loot dungeons.
> >>
> >>Unless, of course, they fight monsters and loot dungeons.
> >
> > When they start doiung that they stop being Commoners.
>
> Or they start advancing in Commoner levels.
>
> >>Ye flipping gods. What of the Commoner who fights monsters because

> >>they're attacking his village? He's *still a Commoner.*
> >
> > That's an incident. One incident doesn't make one a PC.
>
> How many incidents constitute an adventure, then?
>
> Is there something in the game rules that prevents Commoners from
> killing things (just like adventurers do), gaining experience points
for
> it, and thus gaining levels in the Commoner class?
>

Yes, the fact that any commoner fighting anything that would actually
give him any experience would be so quickly taking a dirt nap. The
higher the commoner's level, the more so.
 
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~consul wrote:
> ((about Jessica Fletcher))
>
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > You guys *do* realize how silly this argument has become, right?
First of
> > all, she would be a combination of Dedicated Hero and Smart Hero
(D20
> > Modern). Secondly, play GURPS already; D&D was not designed for
this level
> > of detail when it comes to NPC classes.
>
> But this is so much more interesting to me than say figuring out the
alignment
> of Darth Vader. :)

Very true. But on that subject, he's obviously evil, but which one? I
think I'd have to go with neutral.

- Justisaur
 
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"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd5qu74.nd0.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> David Serhienko wrote:
> >> Non-combat, city appropriate? FIRE!
>
> Justisaur wrote:
> > Actually that's a pretty reasonable suggestion. High level commoners
> > are on the fire brigade. Rescuing someone out of a burning building
> > should be worth a pretty hefty XP award, or possibly several if you
> > count it as multiple traps. One could extend that to other emergency
> > work as well.
>
> Yeah, it's a decent example. However, it wouldn't count as multiple
> traps; see the DMG rules for forest fires. Also, it'd only get you to
> 14th level or so, since even large fires are only about CR 6.

Note that a CR6 forest fire would likely be lethal to a commoner of *any*
level unless he had equipment even remotely suitable to his level. IOW,
not a dirt scratching farmer.
 
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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113485526.891359.297810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Matt Frisch wrote:

> b) so one NPC class is somehow supperior to another?
>
> What a ridiculous counterargument.

So why make it?
 
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"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:d3n1i3$3t$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <oeft51hmb1pf5u66o9jc1adog1msj8glp8@4ax.com>,
> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
> >
> >Monks could have designed and overseen the construction, it's within
their
> >capabilities. But build it all by hand? No...there were slaves by the
> >truckload.
>
> ISTR they used peasants in the not-growing season.

We don't know. That is just a theory.
 
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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113774010.970073.118390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Matt Frisch wrote:
> > On 15 Apr 2005 13:03:54 -0700, "Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> scribed
> into
> > the ether:
> >
> > >
> > >Matt Frisch wrote:
> > >
> > >> >b) so one NPC class is somehow supperior to another?
> > >>
> > >> Name for me one meaningful way that the Commoner class is better
> than
> > >any
> > >> other class in the game.
> > >
> > >Irrelevant. they have better numbers, sure, but I don't see how
> that
> > >makes them innately supperior.
> >
> > Then you have serious issues.
>
> If you say so. igh numbers represent something, though, and you don't
> always want that somehting in an NPC. Comoners provide us with a good
> DM tool to have someone who is good at what they do but still largely
> infereor in a lot of ways. That's not a supperior or inferior thing.
> it just makes them good for what the class was designed for. Psssing
> judgment on it seems immature.

Lay down the crack pipe Anivair. That you find the commoner class warm and
cuddly does not make it "equal" in any quantifiable way.
 
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Symbol wrote:

> > not
> > only do elves life a long time but some people outright live
forever
> > for any number of reasons. Who says they can't be commoners?
>
> How? With reference to the actual D&D rules and default setting
please.
> Don't complain about that clause either, that is what is under
discussion.

I can't say I know any core rules for it, but given the nature of the
game I'm simply saying that ruling it out is a silly idea. Do try to
remember that a default D&D setting is not the end all and be all of
the game, nor of any discussion about the game, I should hope.

> > What cheating? Where are the XP rules for noncombat encounters
that
> > you indicate are being cheated? How can you cheat a rule based on
> > oppinion?
>
> In my opinion all blue cars are red. You can analyze that opinion
> objectively and therefore make judgements on its merits.

Noted, but irrelevant. Noncombat encounters are supposed to be vague,
with the DM setting the CR based on their opinion. There are no hard
and fast rules for it. Whereas there ARE hard an fast rules about what
is and is not red versus blue. Scuence type rules with numbers and
measurments even. We don't have those in this case. What we have is
the DM who decides how challenging and non-combat situation was and
assigns and CR appropriately. So there is no cheating if the DM says
some non-combat encounter is CR 10. Granted, it may be a bit off if
all you did was track down a box and give it to the duke, but that's
still not actually cheating. it's just a stupid idea. You can't cheat
a system that lacks rules.
 
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Symbol wrote:

> Lay down the crack pipe Anivair. That you find the commoner class
warm and
> cuddly does not make it "equal" in any quantifiable way.

Stop being a complete twit before you hurt yourself. Of course it's
equal. it's a class. And if I want an NPC that fits the commoner mold
then it's the perfect class. It's better than using any other class,
in fact. My noncombat farmhand should be a commoner and not a ranger
or an aristocrat or any other class. Wich makes it a perfectly viable
class.

You're confusing numbers with validity. The fact that it has small
numbers doesn't make it a bad class. it just makes it less powerful.
And less powerful is only worse if you're a munchkin.
 
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On 18 Apr 2005 11:53:28 -0700, "Justisaur" <justisaur@gmail.com> scribed
into the ether:

>
>~consul wrote:
>> ((about Jessica Fletcher))
>>
>> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> > You guys *do* realize how silly this argument has become, right?
>First of
>> > all, she would be a combination of Dedicated Hero and Smart Hero
>(D20
>> > Modern). Secondly, play GURPS already; D&D was not designed for
>this level
>> > of detail when it comes to NPC classes.
>>
>> But this is so much more interesting to me than say figuring out the
>alignment
>> of Darth Vader. :)
>
>Very true. But on that subject, he's obviously evil, but which one? I
>think I'd have to go with neutral.

Lawful. Control of the Force requires a not inconsiderably amount of
personal discipline, and he does have fairly clear cut rules of behavior.
It's also the perfect alignment flop from the Chaotic Good that early
Anakin represents, with his need to be breaking the rules however he sees
fit.

On a completely unrelated note, this gives me the perfect excuse to bring
out something that got posted in another NG many many (many many) moons
ago...I only wish I could take credit.

So James Earl Jones is Vassar College's Commencement speaker for this
year. Oddly, this event coincides with the release of the much awaited
"Phantom Menace" and the unexpected popularity of Baz Luhrmann's
"Sunscreen Song" (which, if you have had your head under a rock, is a
spoken graduation address set to music that is constantly playing on many
radio stations).
And so, I can only wonder what would Mr. Jones' address
be like?...

Everybody's Free (To Embrace The Dark Side)

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Vassar College class of '99...embrace the
Dark Side. If I could offer you only one tip for the future, The Dark
Side would be it. The long-term benefits of The Dark Side have been
proved by the Dark Lords of The Sith, whereas the rest of my advice has
no basis more reliable than my own meandering cruelty and conquests.

I will dispense this advice now...

Enjoy the power and beauty of your planet. Oh, nevermind, you willnever
understand the power and the beauty of your planet until after the Empire
has destroyed it in a futile attempt to find the Rebel Base. But trust
me, in twenty years, you will look back at photos of your home and
recall, in away you can't grasp now, how blissfully ignorant you were,
and how fabulous your planet really looked before it was a pile of
burning space rubble. Your planet is not as dull as you imagine.

Don't worry about the Rebellion - or worry, but know that worrying is as
effective as trying to make the Kessel run in a landspeeder. The real
troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your
twisted mind. The kind that fire a direct hit into your reactor core at 4
PM on some idle Tuesday.

Do in one Death Star officer every day.

Scheme.

Don't disobey the Emperor's orders; don't put up with people who disobey
yours.

Hate.

Don't waste your time on Stormtroopers. They can't hit the broad side of
a barn.

The battle is long and in the end, it's only with yourself. And your
idiot son.

Remember the prophecies of the Emperor; ignore the whinings of your
bratty upstart farmboy of a son. If you succeed in doing this, tell me
how.

Keep your old light saber, but change your costume slightly with every
sequel.

Destroy.

Don't feel guilty if you have no misgivings about joining the Dark Side.
The most interesting people I know didn't have any respect at 22 for
their victim's lives. Some of the most interesting 40-year olds I know
still don't.

Have plenty of minions.

Be kind to your right hand, you'll miss it when it's gone.

Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe your son will join you, maybe
he won't. Maybe you'll convince your daughter to become a dark Jedi and
assist you in your campaign of hatred and destruction; maybe she'll
become a rebel leader and marry a scruffy-looking nerf herder.

Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself
either. Your destiny is half chance. So is everybody else's.

Enjoy the Force. Exploit it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it or
what other people think of your "sorcerer's ways." The ability to
destroy a planet is insignificant next to its power.

Kill. Even if you have no one to kill but a meaningless extra.

Listen to what the Emperor has forseen, even if you don't follow his
prophecies.

Do not take your mask off, it will only make you feel ugly. And
vulnerable.

Get to know your parents. You'll never know when they'll turn out to be
your arch enemies.

Be nice to your siblings. They are your best link to your Jedi lineage
and the ones most likely to become Jedi in the future.

Understand that lackeys come and go. But with a precious few, you should
keep from crushing their tracheas. Work hard to bridge the gaps in
geography and lifestyle, for as the more desperate you become, the more
you will need to send bounty hunters to do your dirty work for you.

Live on Dagobah once, but leave before you get foot rot.

Live on Tattooine once, but leave before you get heat stroke.

Travel. Preferably in your own custom TIE Fighter.

Accept certain inalienable truths: rebellions will rise, the Imperial
Senate will have to be disbanded, you too will get old. And when you do,
you'll fantasize that when you were young, rebels were easily crushed,
the Imperial Senate was subservient, and citizens respected their Emperor.

Respect your Emperor.

Don't expect your son to rule the galaxy with you. Maybe he'll give in to
his anger, maybe he'll strike you down, but you'll never know when he'll
whine pleadingly and you'll find yourself turning to the Light Side and
saving his sorry butt.

Don't strike down your old Jedi Master, or he will become more powerful
than you could possibly imagine.

Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it,
or I'll crush your throat. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it
is a way of fishing your humanity from the depths of sin, wiping it
off, putting black body armor over the ugly parts and redeeming it for
more than its worth.

But trust me on the Dark Side.
 
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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:k86i51t614r0vridhtqocuvu180n7h7eri@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:59:53 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>> Why would you say that?
>
> Say what?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113842174.541885.55020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Matt Frisch wrote:
>
> > > igh numbers represent something, though, and you don't
> > >always want that somehting in an NPC.
> >
> > That's blatant backpedaling and you damn well know it. Your quote,
> > helpfully supplied up above, does not say "So one NPC class makes for
> > better characters than another?". Your question was not asked in
> > roleplaying terms, and it received a mechanical answer. You are just
> wrong
> > and are for some reason not retracting.
>
> Wow. I don't see where you're getting that. of course it was a
> roleplayiong statment. Obviously it takes a complete boob notto nitice
> that the numbers are better and that other clases are more powerful
> (note other quotes of mine to this effect regarding numbers) but that
> doesn't make them "better". it means they're "more powerful". Better
> is a ridiculous word to generalize with in a roleplaying game.

You're either being stupid or you are weaselling or both.
 
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In article <g-udnW6YW563IfnfRVnytw@pipex.net>, Symbol <jb70@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
>news:d3n1i3$3t$1@knot.queensu.ca...
>> In article <oeft51hmb1pf5u66o9jc1adog1msj8glp8@4ax.com>,
>> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Monks could have designed and overseen the construction, it's within
>their
>> >capabilities. But build it all by hand? No...there were slaves by the
>> >truckload.
>>
>> ISTR they used peasants in the not-growing season.
>
>We don't know. That is just a theory.

OK. But doesn't that mean that "slaves by the truckload" is also "just a
theory?"
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
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"Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZGx7e.6145$lP1.2085@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd5qojr.nd0.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> > > Bullshit. It is all one needs to say. You don't think the
architects
> > > of the tombs of Egyptian pharohs were other than very talented
non-PC
> > > class characterrs that should have warranted a *fat* experience
point
> > > bonus for their successful completion?
> >
> > See, this is a concrete example. Now explain how a commoner is going
to
> > do this kind of thing enough time to reach 20th level.
>
> Given that such a feat requires overcoming many challenges to
> accomplish, it's not even necessary to involve multiples. Finishing even
one
> is like completing a long series of adventures spanning years. Someone
> qualified to lead the job is already surely an experienced bulider with
some
> other significant jobs under his belt, so one whopping tomb isn't a 1-20
> path, but it might rate 5-10 levels for an originally 10th level
character
> depending on the ambitions involved.

Yeah right. Imhotep who was an expert scientist, physician and HIGH PRIEST
OF RA gained his levels because he designed and built the first pyramid.
How many levels did I gain from redecorating my bathroom? I didn't have
tens of thousands of people helping me if that makes a difference.
 
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"Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:g-udnWWYW562IfnfRVnytw@pipex.net...
> "Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > Given that such a feat requires overcoming many challenges to
> > accomplish, it's not even necessary to involve multiples. Finishing even
one
> > is like completing a long series of adventures spanning years. Someone
> > qualified to lead the job is already surely an experienced bulider with
some
> > other significant jobs under his belt, so one whopping tomb isn't a 1-20
> > path, but it might rate 5-10 levels for an originally 10th level
character
> > depending on the ambitions involved.
>
> Yeah right. Imhotep who was an expert scientist, physician and HIGH PRIEST
> OF RA gained his levels because he designed and built the first pyramid.
> How many levels did I gain from redecorating my bathroom? I didn't have
> tens of thousands of people helping me if that makes a difference.

You might do better if you typed replies that actually had some
relevance to the argument posed.

-Michael
 
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"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:d42hbj$13p$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <g-udnW6YW563IfnfRVnytw@pipex.net>, Symbol <jb70@talk21.com>
wrote:
> >
> >"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
> >news:d3n1i3$3t$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> >> In article <oeft51hmb1pf5u66o9jc1adog1msj8glp8@4ax.com>,
> >> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Monks could have designed and overseen the construction, it's within
> >their
> >> >capabilities. But build it all by hand? No...there were slaves by
the
> >> >truckload.
> >>
> >> ISTR they used peasants in the not-growing season.
> >
> >We don't know. That is just a theory.
>
> OK. But doesn't that mean that "slaves by the truckload" is also "just
a
> theory?"

Only one thing is universally agreed and that is that the labour process
was incrediably intensive. Estimates for the largest pyramid at Giza vary
massively. From around 30,000 to 300,000 depending on which building
technique they argue was used. We have written records of people
speculating about this going back over two and half thousand years so we
shouldn't be surprised!
 
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"Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:is39e.8783$An2.1026@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:g-udnWWYW562IfnfRVnytw@pipex.net...
> > "Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > Given that such a feat requires overcoming many challenges to
> > > accomplish, it's not even necessary to involve multiples. Finishing
even
> one
> > > is like completing a long series of adventures spanning years.
Someone
> > > qualified to lead the job is already surely an experienced bulider
with
> some
> > > other significant jobs under his belt, so one whopping tomb isn't a
1-20
> > > path, but it might rate 5-10 levels for an originally 10th level
> character
> > > depending on the ambitions involved.
> >
> > Yeah right. Imhotep who was an expert scientist, physician and HIGH
PRIEST
> > OF RA gained his levels because he designed and built the first
pyramid.
> > How many levels did I gain from redecorating my bathroom? I didn't
have
> > tens of thousands of people helping me if that makes a difference.
>
> You might do better if you typed replies that actually had some
> relevance to the argument posed.

Let me spell it out for you. The Eygptian architects didn't exist. Those
responsible for designing and building the pyramids were primarily
responsible for other things and (the ones we know of) cannot be
represented by the commoner class.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> It's only very recently that (most) everyone has been afforded a
> 'general education' instead of being trained from an early age for
> something specific - even if that something is fairly broad, it's still
> no where near as broad as a general education.

It's those folks with a "Bachelors in Liberal Arts" :)
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
 
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Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "Chad Lubrecht" <chad.lubrecht@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>Isn't this the idea that started the whole thread to begin with? A
>>commoner level is a small enough thing, that I see no problem with
>>letting a character exchange it for something else (perhaps for a few
>>hundred xp) if they've left the peacefull life of a commoner behind.
> That is a completely reasonable house rule for a "humble origins" campaign.

Sounds close to what they had in 2ed as optional pre-1st level classes. I liked
it as a 'try it out'. But I don't know anyone who played from pre-1st to higher.
We only did it do make sort of prequels for some characters, and to give our
'kids' something while the parents were out adventuring.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
 
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In article <UrWdnQAbEaKYQPnfRVnyhQ@pipex.net>, Symbol <jb70@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
>news:d42hbj$13p$1@knot.queensu.ca...
>> In article <g-udnW6YW563IfnfRVnytw@pipex.net>, Symbol <jb70@talk21.com>
>wrote:
>> >
>> >"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
>> >news:d3n1i3$3t$1@knot.queensu.ca...
>> >> In article <oeft51hmb1pf5u66o9jc1adog1msj8glp8@4ax.com>,
>> >> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Monks could have designed and overseen the construction, it's within
>> >their
>> >> >capabilities. But build it all by hand? No...there were slaves by
>the
>> >> >truckload.
>> >>
>> >> ISTR they used peasants in the not-growing season.
>> >
>> >We don't know. That is just a theory.
>>
>> OK. But doesn't that mean that "slaves by the truckload" is also "just
>a
>> theory?"
>
>Only one thing is universally agreed and that is that the labour process
>was incrediably intensive. Estimates for the largest pyramid at Giza vary
>massively. From around 30,000 to 300,000 depending on which building
>technique they argue was used. We have written records of people
>speculating about this going back over two and half thousand years so we
>shouldn't be surprised!

I have no doubt they used/needed *workers* by the truckload. I just wish I
could remember which book I read that said peasants, so you'd be able to judge
whether it was credible.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113920321.096153.53750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Symbol wrote:
>
> > > not
> > > only do elves life a long time but some people outright live
> forever
> > > for any number of reasons. Who says they can't be commoners?
> >
> > How? With reference to the actual D&D rules and default setting
> please.
> > Don't complain about that clause either, that is what is under
> discussion.
>
> I can't say I know any core rules for it, but given the nature of the
> game I'm simply saying that ruling it out is a silly idea.

I disagree.

> Do try to
> remember that a default D&D setting is not the end all and be all of
> the game, nor of any discussion about the game, I should hope.

It is when you're talking about default classes and default implications.
Note that 3.0 is the first version of the game to remove life extending
items and magic. I believe this was deliberate.

> > > What cheating? Where are the XP rules for noncombat encounters
> that
> > > you indicate are being cheated? How can you cheat a rule based on
> > > oppinion?
> >
> > In my opinion all blue cars are red. You can analyze that opinion
> > objectively and therefore make judgements on its merits.
>
> Noted, but irrelevant. Noncombat encounters are supposed to be vague,
> with the DM setting the CR based on their opinion. There are no hard
> and fast rules for it.

There are guidelines however and breaking the spirit of the rules is as
bad as breaking the letter. There are no hard and fast rules because there
is no way to provide them, not because the authors didn't think there
should be any.
 
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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113920427.179501.232310@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Symbol wrote:
>
> > You're either being stupid or you are weaselling or both.
>
> We'll call that your own worthless opinion. If you care to back it up
> ny I'll address it further. Fact ermains, calling one class better is
> ridiculous. More powerful is fine. better is a qualitative descriptor
> that has no impact on anyhting, and better was the word he used.

Stupid then. CONTEXT COUNTS.