What is the fastest gaming monitor available?

[wildpluckings]

regarding input lag / latency

I use a Dell Ultrasharp U2711 and mostly do multimedia design work. It isn't the best for competitive gaming. I am trying to find the fastest monitor on the market for:

Street Fighter
Guitar Hero
FPS games

My budget is anything up to £500 (~$1000). I am looking for:

Size: 22-24" - 1080p (nothing larger)
Latency: Lowest available, doesn't matter how much it butchers the image quality I just want something uber-fast like my CRT!
Adjustments: vertical orientation would be ideal when using it as a second monitor for multimedia work
inputs: I plan on hooking up an xbox to it too so HDMI is important. For reference I play Halo Reach on a 10 year old CRT, not my new/expensive samsung D7000 55" TV
3D: Not necessary
120Hz: Not necessary

If 3D and 120Hz monitors are the way to go for low input lag then I'm happy to go that route though.

My top pick after research:

Dell U2312HM. 0.6ms response which seems to be the lowest. Vertical orientation adjustment too and well under budget

 

[MagicPants]

The u2312hm is the lowest I've ever heard of. Keep in mind that crt's have an input lag of 8ms on average ((1second/60frames)/2) so all the tests are against that.

For an lcd, minimum input lag is equal to the minimum response time, and the maximum is that plus (1second/framerate). So you can't have a 60hz lcd with lag of less than 8ms average.

a 120hz panel on the other hand can get down to 4ms. No one has made one that fast, but it's possible.

Another reason you might be better off with a 120hz panel is double and triple buffering in video games. Ever notice that mouse can be laggy in some games with vsync turned on? Well running a 120hz monitor will cut vsync lag in half, which will beat a 60hz monitor no matter how low it's lag is. (or just turn off vsync, if you can)

If you want to cut lag even lower, you need to start thinking about lag from your input devices. Get a wired mouse that uses the ps2 port, then crank up the reporting rate on the port. Same goes with the keyboard, also keep in mind that you'll get lag due to the throw of your keys, and fun mechanical stuff like that.

 

[wildpluckings]

The thing is that the most hardcore of gamers are going to have a point where the input lag is so little that it is not an object. I feel the effects of 30ms in FPS and rhythm games. I imagine that anything under 10ms (1/100th of a second) is where I really would not be able to differentiate between the display and a CRT.

Assuming all other hardware is lag free, could anyone perceive input lag on the U2312HM? Would it feel like an old CRT screen or would there still be some latency?

Can I get suggestions on 120Hz monitors within my budget/requirements? The selection is massive I wouldn't know where to start. It's also new technology so I don't know if it might be worth waiting further into the year for the 2012 models (assuming it is advancing quickly)

 

[MagicPants]

A u2312hm will be so close to a crt you won't notice the difference. A friend of mine was having issues with rhythm games on his TV and figured out it was the HDMI hookup. After he switched to component, the lag went away.

 

[wildpluckings]

That is good to know if it performs like a CRT but offers me 1080p HD I'll buy it without hesitation. I will be using HDMI for the xbox though. Maybe your friends input lag was due to some kind of upscaling? Since the 2312HM is a 1080p display and the xbox outputs in 1080p it doesnt seem like it would be a problem..

So is the U2312HM the BEST on the market currently? (regarding input latency/response) I don't want to have any reason to upgrade after purchase. My budget is £500 and I can get that for ~£160 so thats another 340 I'm willing to throw at this if it is worth it. I need suggestions on 120Hz displays!

 

[azeem40]

Yes, the HM is well worth it for its price. It has the lowest input lag at about .6. If you want HDMI, you will have to purchase a DVI to HDMI cable as the HM only has D-Sub, DVI, and DisplayPort.

 

[wildpluckings]

thanks for the heads up azeem40 I didn't realise there was no hdmi socket. Now if using an adapter cable is going to induce any latency then I'll have to rule out this monitor!

What do you think? The 2312HM just happens to be on sale in the UK at the moment too @ £167.99 which is £10 cheaper than usual. I am looking for the FASTEST monitor. I want to avoid buying the 2312HM only to find 120hz displays would have been the better option.

Can someone confirm this? That the 2312HM has the least latency out of any full HD display out there? Any perceivable difference over my trusty CRT won't cut it!

 

[azeem40]

Yeah, you can check out this review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2312hm.htm

 

[wildpluckings]

I saw the review prior to making the thread it did help me understand things better

After further research I am looking at 120Hz displays. BenQ XL2420T. Input latency indistiguishable compared with the 2312HM, but it's 120Hz will beef up motion performance for fast paced games. Seems like the best choice. What about the Samsung S23A750D/S23A700D? These get a lot of love also, if anyone has experience with both I'd love to hear some thoughts.

 

[MagicPants]

Of those, the BenQ XL2420T would be the most interesting to me. I still want to see independently tested lag numbers (I've heard 3.8ms, which is still fantastic). My main concern is that the "black equalizer" might be a post process that injects a frame of latency, but it might not be.

 

[wildpluckings]

Of those, the BenQ XL2420T would be the most interesting to me. I still want to see independently tested lag numbers (I've heard 3.8ms, which is still fantastic). My main concern is that the "black equalizer" might be a post process that injects a frame of latency, but it might not be.

Well thank you for the support I believe I will give the XL2420T a go. Regarding the black equalizer I would be surprised if it both turns out to be a process that can't be turned off AND induces significant latency. Being a gamer orientated display and all, it would make no sense. Thank you for mentioning this it is something I'll to look out for and think about.

Fingers crossed I'll finally be happy to play my Xbox games in HD

 

[VinnyChase]

I'm also in the market for a monitor for the xbox 360. I'm looking into the Dell U2312HM, ASUS VH236H, Samsung PX2370, as well as the Samsungs mentioned above. I considered the XL2420T, but the xbox 360 runs at 60Hz max so would it not be able to take advantage of 120Hz? In my research for monitors for the 360 it was suggested to avoid 120Hz monitors.

 

[wildpluckings]

I'm also in the market for a monitor for the xbox 360. I'm looking into the Dell U2312HM, ASUS VH236H, Samsung PX2370, as well as the Samsungs mentioned above. I considered the XL2420T, but the xbox 360 runs at 60Hz max so would it not be able to take advantage of 120Hz? In my research for monitors for the 360 it was suggested to avoid 120Hz monitors.

nice to see someone else on the hunt. Let me know how you get on I'll be sure to report back here if I have any luck. I don't think the xbox can do 120Hz. I don't understand why someone would say a 120Hz monitor should be avoided though? The extra cost perhaps? But technically there won't be a difference afaik and it will also double up as a superb PC monitor :/ I was put off the Dell U2312HM when I learned about it's lack of HDMI port and the advantages the XL2420T will have when playing PC games (battlefield etc) at 120fps. The motion will be massively superior at this framerate.

What was the reasoning for avoiding 120Hz monitors for games consoles?

 

[VinnyChase]

nice to see someone else on the hunt. Let me know how you get on I'll be sure to report back here if I have any luck. I don't think the xbox can do 120Hz. I don't understand why someone would say a 120Hz monitor should be avoided though? The extra cost perhaps? But technically there won't be a difference afaik and it will also double up as a superb PC monitor :/ I was put off the Dell U2312HM when I learned about it's lack of HDMI port and the advantages the XL2420T will have when playing PC games (battlefield etc) at 120fps. The motion will be massively superior at this framerate.

What was the reasoning for avoiding 120Hz monitors for games consoles?

They reasoned that since the xbox 360 caps at 60Hz that it couldn't take advantage of 120Hz and that they were pricey. No one really mentioned whether or not the other features of the newer 120Hz monitors coming out when run at 60Hz, i.e., input lag, response time, image quality, etc would be superior than older 60Hz monitors and therefore prove beneficial for the 360. It's also been hard to find info on the input lag of various 120Hz monitors when run at 60Hz. Based on the specs of the BenQ 2410T, for example, it appears that input lag is slightly higher when run at 60Hz.

I didn't imagine that it would be this difficult to find a monitor for the 360.

 

[wildpluckings]

VinnyChase I suspected that would be it. In that case as I still play a lot of PC games and will appreciate the 120Hz I am still happy to spend the extra.

I ordered my XL2420T from Amazon this evening. I'll report how it goes my biggest concerns are:

Will 60Hz cause higher input latency than running at 120Hz?
Will using an HDMI cable cause higher input latency?
Will I get any conflicting problems running my U2711 and XL2420T at different refresh rates in dual display configuration?

We shall see!

 

[MagicPants]

This is a really good page that shows how differences in response time and input lag are often times exaggerated by specs:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/acer-s231hl-bid-dell-s2330mx-lg-ips236v-samsung-s23a550h,3131-9.html

Notice how the real difference in response time between tn and ips monitors is closer to 16% (18 vs 21) whereas the specs show 350% (2ms vs 7ms). And total input lag is a 19% difference (48ms vs 57ms).

 

[Sebax]

Hi, i was planning to buy a Dell U2313HM for my new build, but then i found this thread and saw that you guys say that the 3D monitors/120hz are better for gaming? I was mostly going for the Dell one because of the IPS display and the very low input lag, but now i'm a bit confused.

 

[azeem40]

If you play fast-paced FPS games or anything of the sort, get 120Hz. Otherwise get the e-IPS.

 

[MagicPants]

120hz only helps if you have the video cards to drive it at 120fps. You can also increase the mouse responsiveness just by turning off v-sync.

It's not so much the Response time or the lag of 120hz monitors, it's just that well... they're updating twice as often as 60hz monitors. This helps with poorly coded games, for instance Skyrim and The Witcher 2 will feel better at 120hz (assuming some beefy graphics.) because they use mouse smoothing which makes everything feel sluggish.

For games where the controls are tight (most FPSes) you'll get less of a benefit. I know this seems counter-intuitive

 

[azeem40]

That is not true. Even at 60fps, the images will look more crisp and vivid, and in fast paced games, the screen will be very smooth.

 

[MagicPants]

So you are saying that 60fps looks better at 120hz than it does at 60hz?

If v-sync is turned on, fps and hz are the same thing. So an explicitly stated version of your assertion is: Using 120hz at 60hz is better than 60hz at 60hz.

Anyway you're missing the point of what I was saying. Which is that one of the main advantages of 120hz is that it improves latency while keeping v-sync turned on. Improving frame requires rendering one frame right after the other, in some cases before the previous frame has been displayed. Reducing latency means rendering the frame to be displayed at the last possible moment, so it has the most recent information.

That is not true. Even at 60fps, the images will look more crisp and vivid, and in fast paced games, the screen will be very smooth.

 

[azeem40]

I get it now. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[MagicPants]

Alright, fine... here's the long version.

Say you are on the moon with a chimpanzee who can paint and your job is to report the weather on earth at the end of every earth day.

The chimp takes a photo of the earth whenever he starts a painting (but you aren't allowed to see it, only the painting). It then takes him on average 3 hours to paint the earth. He gives it to you (for a banana) at the end of the day, and your weather report is 24 hours out of date.

With v-sync turned off he paints a new painting every 3 hours and gives you every one. When you make your report, the painting is somewhere between 3 and 6 hours old. (But about 7 paintings get tossed out as busy work)

With 120hz, he paints a picture starting at both midnight and noon. Now your report is always 12 hours out of date (and you make two a day instead of one.)

Ideally, he knows how long a painting will take him (say 3:12 hours) so he starts it 3:12 hours before your report, paints one painting, and it's only 3:12 hours old.

Now in a poorly written game, the chimp decides to give you the second most recent picture instead.

 

[Sebax]

I do mostly play Fast paced games such as Battlefield 3 and Team Fortress 2. Also i think my graphics card can actually handle 120hz since it's a GTX 580
I really wanted an IPS screen because of the better colours and image, but if the 120hz displays are better i'd get this one:
ASUS VG236H Since it seems to have good reviews, and well it's 3D and that's nice to have and maybe even over the better colours

 

[azeem40]

Alright, fine... here's the long version.

Say you are on the moon with a chimpanzee who can paint and your job is to report the weather on earth at the end of every earth day.

The chimp takes a photo of the earth whenever he starts a painting (but you aren't allowed to see it, only the painting). It then takes him on average 3 hours to paint the earth. He gives it to you (for a banana) at the end of the day, and your weather report is 24 hours out of date.

With v-sync turned off he paints a new painting every 3 hours and gives you every one. When you make your report, the painting is somewhere between 3 and 6 hours old. (But about 7 paintings get tossed out as busy work)

With 120hz, he paints a picture starting at both midnight and noon. Now your report is always 12 hours out of date (and you make two a day instead of one.)

Ideally, he knows how long a painting will take him (say 3:12 hours) so he starts it 3:12 hours before your report, paints one painting, and it's only 3:12 hours old.

Now in a poorly written game, the chimp decides to give you the second most recent picture instead.

?
I wasn't being sarcastic. I really do get what you meant.