AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[esrever]

and a dual core hyper threaded i3 is near 8 core pd in many tasks

a p4 is near an i7 in many tasks.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

Anyone boasting about dual core processors and gaming are living in the past. At the end of this year gaming is going to change a lot. When the PS4 and Xbox whatever come out they are going to running 8 cores. The era of single core power in gaming has had its day and the writing is on the wall for its end. Anyone who thinks they are going to have a serious gaming rig with a dual core processor is diluted. I would also like to point out that "PD is nowhere close to Intel's i5/i7 chips" is just not true. There have been many posts on this topic and its on a benchmark to benchmark basis. The benchmark tests are made to favor Intel, however real world computing PD is just as good as i5 and not worlds away from i7. In truly fair, unbiased benchmarks i5 and i7 don't blow Piledriver away, its very very close. Intel fan boys only look at single core execution and think it is the end all of processing when the truth is there is a lot more to processing power than just single core execution. The future is mulit core execution.

You can live in the past and brag about your Intel dual core's power at single core processes and think you have a real powerhouse, or you can look toward to future and realize dual cores are becoming exceedingly obsolete. The biggest hit is going to be in gaming when games are optimized for the new consoles and optimized to run on 4, 6, 8 cores. Where is a dual core going to be able to game then? They might (big might) be able to still run the new games, but not well and won't compete against a quad, six, or 8 core system. A flintlock will still kill you but there is a reason they aren't used on the battlefield anymore.

I see AMD's biggest single problem going forward is the whole stigma of Intel dominance. Few people know, or would admit, that PD > IB at full load simply because most don't think Piledriver can best Ivy Bridge at anything. Even if Steamroller released with impossible numbers, say twice as powerful as Haswell, Haswell would still outsell Steamroller. The reason is as simple as going to your nearest Best Buy and talking with their "experts". People on this forum, who actually know the tech and build their own systems know the strengths, weaknesses and price for power of the computers they are building. The average Joe going out to buy a computer is going to go for a IBM, Dell, HP, Acer, ect.. and they are going to take the word of the teenage kid working for minimum wadge as gospel. Most of those kids, not fully understanding the tech or companies, are going to preach Intel superiority regardless of how good Steamroller may be simply because Intel is the "known" namebrand. That is the main reason why years ago when AMD was better than Intel processors Intel still outsold AMD. I liken it to Smith and Wesson vs Ruger revolvers. Smith and Wesson is the "known" name and noobs will always pay double what they would have to just to have the name even though Ruger revolvers outperform S&W and are usually half the cost. Salesmen will always be more than happy to sell the most expensive models too, even if your just paying for a name with no performance increase behind it. No matter how good Steamroller, and the next gen of APUs are AMD is going to have an uphill battle trying to compete against the "household namebrand".

When the Athlon 64 X2s kicked the Pentium D's ass people would still buy Intel more.

Ahh, the Pentium D, powered by the 31 stage pipelined FailBurst (Prescott) core with a [strike]space heater[/strike] second core added. I used the Athlon 64x2 (90nm) quite a lot. I would take the analogy in firearms as Steyr AUG (FX) vs M16A2 (i5-3570K). In cars it would be, Nissan GT-R (FX) to Porsche 911 GT2 (i5-3570K).

 

[8350rocks]

Also, if you consider, even the US Government has conceded Linux is worthy by switching over. Many public/private sector entities are switching over because it's more efficient, and has better security than windows.

Not just no, but hell no. The US Government most certainly isn't using Linux as a desktop OS and NT (Server 2003/2008/2012) is the prevalent server OS. You only see Linux is net-app style devices (McAfee security devices, RPAs, IDS and various other utility systems) or where they deploy ESXi. For heavy processing Solaris is the preferred choice, previously on SPARC but their now using x86 due to costing. This is pretty much the same thing you see in Corporate America and for a very good reason.

Microsoft provides an extremely wide range of management services and solutions along with best practices and a very robust credentialing system. That all works to reduce man-hour requirements for administration of IT services which is the largest driver of IT cost. A handful of college students with Linux knowledge may be able to provide services for small business's but absolutely doesn't work for Corporate solutions. The predominate Linux for big corporate isn't Ubuntu but RHEL and it's twin sibling CentOS. Anyone who's planning on working Linux in big IT needs to be intimately familiar with RHEL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

In July 2001[1] the White House started moving their computers to a Linux platform based on Red Hat Linux and Apache HTTP Server.[2] The installation was completed in February 2009.[3][4] In October 2009 the White House servers adopted Drupal, an open source content management system software distribution.[5][6]

The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux"[13] and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux.[14]

In April 2006, the US Federal Aviation Administration announced that it had completed a migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million dollars

The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world's tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems.[34]

In June 2012 the US Navy signed a US$27,883,883 contract with Raytheon to install Linux ground control software for its fleet of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Northrup-Grumman MQ8B Fire Scout drones. The contract involves Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, which has already spent $5,175,075 in preparation for the Linux systems.[45]

The government hasn't what? If the White House and the DoD and all military installations and congressional offices use Linux...then what part of the government that's left wouldn't be using it?

Even the major stock exchanges run Linux:

The New York Stock Exchange uses Linux to run its trading applications.[86]

The Chi-X pan-European equity exchange runs its MarketPrizm trading platform software on Linux.[86]

The London Stock Exchange uses the Linux based MillenniumIT Millennium Exchange software for its trading platform and predicts that moving to Linux from Windows will give it an annual cost savings of at least £10 million ($14.7 million) from 2011-12[87][88]

It's coming...

EDIT: Of course it's RHEL, and they were changing the DoD over to Linux in pieces before I quit working for them 13 years ago...that was the "test bed" for the rest of the Government offices to my knowledge. The logic was Linux is free, and can be shaped into their demands for security much more easily than windows.

 

[8350rocks]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57585560-75/windows-role-at-the-core-of-microsofts-xbox-one/

THREE OS's? Boy, worse then I thought. More or less guarantees at least one core is reserved for the OS, possibly even two.

Or the separate custom ARM chip, that's designed to run the OS, could be running the OS, at least...that's my guess. Mark Cerny also discussed any additional OS loads that the custom chip could not handle would be offloaded onto the 64 thread capable compute portion of the GPU.



EDIT: I bet that's at least part of the reason AMD went after a license to make ARM architecture...the other end of that being ARM servers.

 

[8350rocks]

intel wins majority of benchmarks and majority of games and if we keep ivy and pd at same tdp level (by fusing 2 i5-3350p or like this, means 8 cores and 125w tdp for both side) then ivy wins in every multithreaded task (thus more performance per watt)
means majority of time ivy wins
and an average joe wants best performer, he does not care about underlying principle

Average Joe cares nothing for performance per watt. Have you ever been in something like a Best Buy PC section or CompUSA store? All they sell are PCs, and nobody asks about power consumption...they ask about things like: "how fast will this do X application?", and "why is this one cheaper?". P/W is not something anyone ever asks about at all.

If the answers are "pretty fast" and "because it's not intel" people will probably buy an intel PC. Where as, if the answers are "pretty fast" and "because it has an AMD system and they're priced for better value" they might buy an AMD rig.

That is consumer reality at the moment, unfortunately, most are not at all educated about PCs enough to ask questions that are pertinent, and most sales people don't know enough about the product to answer pertinent questions either.

 

[juanrga]

Microsoft provides an extremely wide range of management services and solutions along with best practices and a very robust credentialing system. That all works to reduce man-hour requirements for administration of IT services which is the largest driver of IT cost. A handful of college students with Linux knowledge may be able to provide services for small business's but absolutely doesn't work for Corporate solutions. The predominate Linux for big corporate isn't Ubuntu but RHEL and it's twin sibling CentOS. Anyone who's planning on working Linux in big IT needs to be intimately familiar with RHEL.

The same college students that designed Windows Vista? Sorry, couldn't resist. Now seriously, there are companies that provide professional support for linux and, of course, there are companies who use linux in their hardware and already provide support. A pair of examples from IBM:

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/hardware/hpc.html

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/software/linux/about/index.html

 

[griptwister]

When I go to my local best buy, In the desktops section all I see are stacks of desktop PCs, I see more and more people buying them when I go there too. AMD's secret weapon right now is HP. Lol, In the Mobile section, I see i3s, i5's and i7's being advertised rather than the APUs.

The thing is, we see Intel advertisements literally everywhere we go, then subconsciously when people walk into a best buy (or what ever store they buy PCs at), they see the intel logo, and they think they're getting the top of the line quality desktop or laptop. Which they are, but they're getting an i3 Alien Ware PC instead of a FX 8320 rig with a slightly better GPU. The FX 8320 has more to offer at the same price. But since HP also has a lot of advertising, AMD can hide behind that logo. It's all in the marketing. I'd say HP and Dell sell the most, even some of the workers over there can vouch for that. (Dell more so marketing Intel)

The point being, You could sell a shiny turd as long as you marketed it enough. Look at Windows 8 and even this Xbox One. Shoot, even the xbox 360 and the CoD franchise.

 

[juanrga]

Which has been known for a while; at full load, PD > IB. The problem is getting the CPU to full load.

Also, hi.

Yes PD>IB but I may confess that I was perplexed when I saw a linux benchmark where the FX-8350 was a 41.6% faster than the i7-3770k

More interested in pure CPU throughput though; I don't see significant performance increases there. Assuming one core locked down for the OS, you gain a core, reduce clockspeed by half (3.2 down to 1.6), and move to X86. Since X86 is about twice as efficient as the POWER7 arch, I figure that, essentially, the CPU per-core performance isn't going to be significantly different from what it was last generation; maybe 10-20% more powerful. Essentially, the CPU will be powerful enough to feed the GPU, but I'm not entirely sure there's enough to, say, implement significant amounts of extra enhancements (physics, for instance).

Little details are known for the CPU on the Xbox, but I think that it is safe to wait about the same performance that the PS4. The PS4 has a CPU that gives 102.4 GFLOPs. For the sake of comparison the i7-3770k gives 112 GFLOPs. Moreover the PS4 has a HSA design, which means that the GPU can help to the CPU under heavy loads, unlike what happens to a tradittional CPU made by Intel, which botteleneck under heavy loads.

I would add, cant remember the exact numbers, but others have claimed its but a drop in the bucket, as cpus outsell consoles hugely, and only account for a small percentage.
Add that percentage directly to AMDs coughers now, which is 33% by years end of their market, regardless of the blue gorrilla, and as high as 50% going forwards.
These numbers can change, if AMD continues down this path, and for the better

I could be completely wrong, but I think that I read elsewhere that AMD wait about a 20% of its total revenues to become from the custom chip dept. A large percentage of that 20% would be consoles.

I see AMD's biggest single problem going forward is the whole stigma of Intel dominance. Few people know, or would admit, that PD > IB at full load simply because most don't think Piledriver can best Ivy Bridge at anything. Even if Steamroller released with impossible numbers, say twice as powerful as Haswell, Haswell would still outsell Steamroller. The reason is as simple as going to your nearest Best Buy and talking with their "experts". People on this forum, who actually know the tech and build their own systems know the strengths, weaknesses and price for power of the computers they are building. The average Joe going out to buy a computer is going to go for a IBM, Dell, HP, Acer, ect.. and they are going to take the word of the teenage kid working for minimum wadge as gospel. Most of those kids, not fully understanding the tech or companies, are going to preach Intel superiority regardless of how good Steamroller may be simply because Intel is the "known" namebrand. That is the main reason why years ago when AMD was better than Intel processors Intel still outsold AMD. I liken it to Smith and Wesson vs Ruger revolvers. Smith and Wesson is the "known" name and noobs will always pay double what they would have to just to have the name even though Ruger revolvers outperform S&W and are usually half the cost. Salesmen will always be more than happy to sell the most expensive models too, even if your just paying for a name with no performance increase behind it. No matter how good Steamroller, and the next gen of APUs are AMD is going to have an uphill battle trying to compete against the "household namebrand".

I completely agree. The "Intel > AMD always" is part of Intel heavy marketing campaign, amplificated by biased sites plus tons of fanboys happy to repeat the mantra in any forum, blog, or chat.

 

[-Fran-]

I know who will win this console Gen... Us will, haha.

The platforms seem very close to each other, so cross platform won't be so painful anymore: hence better ports for PC.

Kinnect won't be a deal breaker for any big dev IMO, just like the Eye Toy wasn't with the PS2. Also, exclusives... Uhm... It's not a very good business anymore for Publishers, since now cross platform will be easier/cheaper to do. I wonder if the big publishers will even want to have exclusives on just one platform. I know EA, Acticrap and others won't. Not even Indies will IMO. Specially with the draconian terms for the XB1.

Interesting times ahead... Too bad for Nintendo though; hope they become a good publisher house

So... Any SR news as of late?

Cheers!

 

[esrever]

I know who will win this console Gen... Us will, haha.

The platforms seem very close to each other, so cross platform won't be so painful anymore: hence better ports for PC.

Kinnect won't be a deal breaker for any big dev IMO, just like the Eye Toy wasn't with the PS2. Also, exclusives... Uhm... It's not a very good business anymore for Publishers, since now cross platform will be easier/cheaper to do. I wonder if the big publishers will even want to have exclusives on just one platform. I know EA, Acticrap and others won't. Not even Indies will IMO. Specially with the draconian terms for the XB1.

Interesting times ahead... Too bad for Nintendo though; hope they become a good publisher house

So... Any SR news as of late?

Cheers!

Maybe people are saying we are going to be losing this gen because of the DRM and always online policies ect that MS is pulling and sony is likely to follow. I'm going to wait and see.

SR seems to be the quietest thing in development ever. Nothing from AMD since piledriver launch.

 

[palladin9479]

Spoiler

Also, if you consider, even the US Government has conceded Linux is worthy by switching over. Many public/private sector entities are switching over because it's more efficient, and has better security than windows.

Not just no, but hell no. The US Government most certainly isn't using Linux as a desktop OS and NT (Server 2003/2008/2012) is the prevalent server OS. You only see Linux is net-app style devices (McAfee security devices, RPAs, IDS and various other utility systems) or where they deploy ESXi. For heavy processing Solaris is the preferred choice, previously on SPARC but their now using x86 due to costing. This is pretty much the same thing you see in Corporate America and for a very good reason.

Microsoft provides an extremely wide range of management services and solutions along with best practices and a very robust credentialing system. That all works to reduce man-hour requirements for administration of IT services which is the largest driver of IT cost. A handful of college students with Linux knowledge may be able to provide services for small business's but absolutely doesn't work for Corporate solutions. The predominate Linux for big corporate isn't Ubuntu but RHEL and it's twin sibling CentOS. Anyone who's planning on working Linux in big IT needs to be intimately familiar with RHEL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

In July 2001[1] the White House started moving their computers to a Linux platform based on Red Hat Linux and Apache HTTP Server.[2] The installation was completed in February 2009.[3][4] In October 2009 the White House servers adopted Drupal, an open source content management system software distribution.[5][6]

The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux"[13] and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux.[14]

In April 2006, the US Federal Aviation Administration announced that it had completed a migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million dollars

The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world's tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems.[34]

In June 2012 the US Navy signed a US$27,883,883 contract with Raytheon to install Linux ground control software for its fleet of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Northrup-Grumman MQ8B Fire Scout drones. The contract involves Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, which has already spent $5,175,075 in preparation for the Linux systems.[45]

The government hasn't what? If the White House and the DoD and all military installations and congressional offices use Linux...then what part of the government that's left wouldn't be using it?

Even the major stock exchanges run Linux:

The New York Stock Exchange uses Linux to run its trading applications.[86]

The Chi-X pan-European equity exchange runs its MarketPrizm trading platform software on Linux.[86]

The London Stock Exchange uses the Linux based MillenniumIT Millennium Exchange software for its trading platform and predicts that moving to Linux from Windows will give it an annual cost savings of at least £10 million ($14.7 million) from 2011-12[87][88]

It's coming...

EDIT: Of course it's RHEL, and they were changing the DoD over to Linux in pieces before I quit working for them 13 years ago...that was the "test bed" for the rest of the Government offices to my knowledge. The logic was Linux is free, and can be shaped into their demands for security much more easily than windows.

"It's been coming" has been said for 20 years now, it's still not here. And you should go reread what was posted, I made a special comment that the anomaly for Linux adoption is webservers due to how much better Apache is over IIS. Though if you want to get into real webapp power your talking something like Oracle Weblogic (they bought BEAWLS) though that can get crazy expensive with all the components needed to make it work.

Linux will never see desktop prevalence in corporate IT, and definitely not DoD systems. I can speak with the utmost authority on the DoD side. The central issue is automated management, something that RHEL (CentOS) is so far behind in it's just not a contest. Thing is, Linux is not a full Operating System, it's only a Kernel and set of standards for inter-compatibility. RHEL, CentOS, SUSE, Ubunto, those are actual Operating Systems as used in practice. Due to their open nature there is limited incentive for heavily monetized R&D work. You don't spend 11 million USD developing a solution just to have your competitor swipe it and use it for free. The Linux community demands openness and thus create it's own barrier to growth. It takes a company like Apple to actually create a feasible mass marketable product out of "Open Source" (BSD in their case).

Anyhow the cost of the "OS" is absolutely nothing compared to the cost of support, Installation & Engineering (I&E) and Operations and Maintenance (O&M). If anything you can claim that the concept of Linux scared the piss out of MS and forced them to develop solid cheap (relatively speaking) solutions for the I&E and O&M components of IT. SCCM is a good example of that in practice.

 

[griptwister]

I know who will win this console Gen... Us will, haha.

The platforms seem very close to each other, so cross platform won't be so painful anymore: hence better ports for PC.

Kinnect won't be a deal breaker for any big dev IMO, just like the Eye Toy wasn't with the PS2. Also, exclusives... Uhm... It's not a very good business anymore for Publishers, since now cross platform will be easier/cheaper to do. I wonder if the big publishers will even want to have exclusives on just one platform. I know EA, Acticrap and others won't. Not even Indies will IMO. Specially with the draconian terms for the XB1.

Interesting times ahead... Too bad for Nintendo though; hope they become a good publisher house

So... Any SR news as of late?

Cheers!

Maybe people are saying we are going to be losing this gen because of the DRM and always online policies ect that MS is pulling and sony is likely to follow. I'm going to wait and see.

SR seems to be the quietest thing in development ever. Nothing from AMD since piledriver launch.

Has anyone on this forum attempted to email AMD yet? I really wish they would disclose some more information on sockets and stuff at a minimum.

 

[anxiousinfusion]

$170 for A10 6800K? It's not in stock but is this the release pricing? http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-a10-6800k-qc-fm2-4mb/amd_ad680kwoa44hl.html

Between 39-72 percent better gaming performance on today's leading games than the competition.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/23/amd-outlines-elite-performance-laptop-apus/

I believe they are comparing this to an Ivybridge i5 (mobile). There are also plenty of in-house benchmarks included in the press release.

 

[sarinaide]

Honestly this generation of consoles is going to be so similar I can't see one being able to say they are better and being able to back it up easily. They will have to prove their console's superiority with superior exclusive titles which is going to make for large, more developed games with better story lines and not just better graphics. Studios producing games across consoles will have to step their "game" up too or their titles will be passed up for the better exclusive titles. What is going to be really nice is I don't think games will be in development as long as they were for the last generation as the coding across the board is going to be so similar. One thing is for certain though, no matter who wins the console wars this time around AMD still wins.

That was the case with K7, AMD for a legitmate period of time say 2000-2007 were ahead or just about on par with Intel designs but in the dominant AMD era Intel fail processors outsold AMD CPU's by stagering margins, how was this done, Intel forced Acer, Mecer, IBM, Toshiba etc to use only their parts and what is more lucrative a business setting up 300 systems and servers or selling 1 high end gaming rig, basically it is the reason why I loathe Intel and while the parts are good they basically resorted to below the belt tactics to make everything they have today. If AMD got the OEM's the market will be very different today and the 1.64BN payout is just compete lunacy, Intel basically took Billions of potential earnings away from AMD 2000-current. Since microarchitecture engineering is about having more money that is the reason AMD is FABless, the reason why they have nothing to legitimately compete against Intel anymore simply put even if Steamroller was 20% faster than haswell the average buyer doesn't even know what AMD is, AMD is only known by those in the know and basically that kind of hegimony is impossible to salvage unless officials strip Intel of it.

 

[amdfangirl]

AMD Kabini A4-5000 review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6974/amd-kabini-review
AMD Jaguar (PS4, Xbox 1) uarch
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/amds-jaguar-architecture-the-cpu-powering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash

AMD Kabini - the CPU launch that I have waited so long for (that also probably won't interest anyone but me xD).

 

[de5_Roy]

Spoiler

I know who will win this console Gen... Us will, haha.

The platforms seem very close to each other, so cross platform won't be so painful anymore: hence better ports for PC.

Kinnect won't be a deal breaker for any big dev IMO, just like the Eye Toy wasn't with the PS2. Also, exclusives... Uhm... It's not a very good business anymore for Publishers, since now cross platform will be easier/cheaper to do. I wonder if the big publishers will even want to have exclusives on just one platform. I know EA, Acticrap and others won't. Not even Indies will IMO. Specially with the draconian terms for the XB1.

Interesting times ahead... Too bad for Nintendo though; hope they become a good publisher house

So... Any SR news as of late?

Cheers!

mixed news so far. only s/a reaffirming the rumor of kaveri's alleged release date in late 2012 and subsequent cancelling. only new thing was that old kaveri might have had stacked ram(i am still not familiar with the concept) and the new kaveri is...well... no one knows but amd.. i guess... i think it was replaced by the addition of gddr5. glofo was supposed to make cape verde and lower 28nm gpus. i guess it was to make sure kaveri can dual gfx with them.

$170 for A10 6800K? It's not in stock but is this the release pricing? http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-a10-6800k-qc-fm2-4mb/amd_ad680kwoa44hl.html

Between 39-72 percent better gaming performance on today's leading games than the competition.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/23/amd-outlines-elite-performance-laptop-apus/

I believe they are comparing this to an Ivybridge i5 (mobile). There are also plenty of in-house benchmarks included in the press release.

their pricing seems different. fx8350 is over $200, core i5 3570k is over $240. afaik, amd priced a10 6800k around $140.

@amdfangirl: i've been interested in jaguar for a long time. thanks for the links.

 

[truegenius]

esrever said:
a p4 is near an i7 in many tasks.

then go buy a p4 for your self

huh, irrational comments all the time

 

[esrever]

esrever said:
a p4 is near an i7 in many tasks.

then go buy a p4 for your self

huh, irrational comments all the time

well its all in what you look for. If all you are looking at are the things that you want to see, then you buy the product that you need.

 

[amdfangirl]

@amdfangirl: i've been interested in jaguar for a long time. thanks for the links.

For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

-Anand, AMD Jaguar uarch

That made me laugh too hard. xD

Ready your engines, fanbois.

 

[esrever]

jaguar looks impressive. I would love to seem how quad core A15s stack up against Temash.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6979/2013-amd-elite-performance-apu-platform-mobile-richland
richland looks meh but the ULVs looks like a huge improvement. Richland ULVs might make amazing ultra thins if they make it into any good designs.

 

[noob2222]

$170 for A10 6800K? It's not in stock but is this the release pricing? http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-a10-6800k-qc-fm2-4mb/amd_ad680kwoa44hl.html

Between 39-72 percent better gaming performance on today's leading games than the competition.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/23/amd-outlines-elite-performance-laptop-apus/

I believe they are comparing this to an Ivybridge i5 (mobile). There are also plenty of in-house benchmarks included in the press release.

lets not drum up more web hits for shopblt. they are the ones that pre-sell just for web traffic. they sold bd, pd, sb, ivy, ect 2 months before it was even available, and everyone parrots them over and over and over.

Not to mention they priced the 8350 pre-orders at $250.

 

[kettu]

Here's another take on the Jaguar:
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/22/what-does-the-kabini-uncore-look-like/

 

[8350rocks]

Spoiler

Also, if you consider, even the US Government has conceded Linux is worthy by switching over. Many public/private sector entities are switching over because it's more efficient, and has better security than windows.

Not just no, but hell no. The US Government most certainly isn't using Linux as a desktop OS and NT (Server 2003/2008/2012) is the prevalent server OS. You only see Linux is net-app style devices (McAfee security devices, RPAs, IDS and various other utility systems) or where they deploy ESXi. For heavy processing Solaris is the preferred choice, previously on SPARC but their now using x86 due to costing. This is pretty much the same thing you see in Corporate America and for a very good reason.

Microsoft provides an extremely wide range of management services and solutions along with best practices and a very robust credentialing system. That all works to reduce man-hour requirements for administration of IT services which is the largest driver of IT cost. A handful of college students with Linux knowledge may be able to provide services for small business's but absolutely doesn't work for Corporate solutions. The predominate Linux for big corporate isn't Ubuntu but RHEL and it's twin sibling CentOS. Anyone who's planning on working Linux in big IT needs to be intimately familiar with RHEL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

In July 2001[1] the White House started moving their computers to a Linux platform based on Red Hat Linux and Apache HTTP Server.[2] The installation was completed in February 2009.[3][4] In October 2009 the White House servers adopted Drupal, an open source content management system software distribution.[5][6]

The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux"[13] and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux.[14]

In April 2006, the US Federal Aviation Administration announced that it had completed a migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million dollars

The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world's tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems.[34]

In June 2012 the US Navy signed a US$27,883,883 contract with Raytheon to install Linux ground control software for its fleet of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Northrup-Grumman MQ8B Fire Scout drones. The contract involves Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, which has already spent $5,175,075 in preparation for the Linux systems.[45]

The government hasn't what? If the White House and the DoD and all military installations and congressional offices use Linux...then what part of the government that's left wouldn't be using it?

Even the major stock exchanges run Linux:

The New York Stock Exchange uses Linux to run its trading applications.[86]

The Chi-X pan-European equity exchange runs its MarketPrizm trading platform software on Linux.[86]

The London Stock Exchange uses the Linux based MillenniumIT Millennium Exchange software for its trading platform and predicts that moving to Linux from Windows will give it an annual cost savings of at least £10 million ($14.7 million) from 2011-12[87][88]

It's coming...

EDIT: Of course it's RHEL, and they were changing the DoD over to Linux in pieces before I quit working for them 13 years ago...that was the "test bed" for the rest of the Government offices to my knowledge. The logic was Linux is free, and can be shaped into their demands for security much more easily than windows.

"It's been coming" has been said for 20 years now, it's still not here. And you should go reread what was posted, I made a special comment that the anomaly for Linux adoption is webservers due to how much better Apache is over IIS. Though if you want to get into real webapp power your talking something like Oracle Weblogic (they bought BEAWLS) though that can get crazy expensive with all the components needed to make it work.

Linux will never see desktop prevalence in corporate IT, and definitely not DoD systems. I can speak with the utmost authority on the DoD side. The central issue is automated management, something that RHEL (CentOS) is so far behind in it's just not a contest. Thing is, Linux is not a full Operating System, it's only a Kernel and set of standards for inter-compatibility. RHEL, CentOS, SUSE, Ubunto, those are actual Operating Systems as used in practice. Due to their open nature there is limited incentive for heavily monetized R&D work. You don't spend 11 million USD developing a solution just to have your competitor swipe it and use it for free. The Linux community demands openness and thus create it's own barrier to growth. It takes a company like Apple to actually create a feasible mass marketable product out of "Open Source" (BSD in their case).

Anyhow the cost of the "OS" is absolutely nothing compared to the cost of support, Installation & Engineering (I&E) and Operations and Maintenance (O&M). If anything you can claim that the concept of Linux scared the piss out of MS and forced them to develop solid cheap (relatively speaking) solutions for the I&E and O&M components of IT. SCCM is a good example of that in practice.

The DoD, and particularly the intelligence community in the DoD, have more programmers than anyone else in the world. They can make modifications that are not open source based on national security reasons. Even Linux developers cannot argue with that.

Additionally, they were already using Linux desktops in many areas of the DoD 13 years ago.

What makes you think they're not now? Most of them were on RH back then...which I would imagine hasn't changed, or if they're bothering with a newer distro it's likely Fedora (for obvious reasons).

The government has to pay the coders/programmers/IT guys that they have anyway...they're all salary. So working 40 hours or 100 hours per week makes no difference, the pay is the same. They have the manpower, and the man hours, to be able to do whatever they want with any Linux distro they want.

You're talking to someone who was in the intelligence community working on hardware...

Additionally, if you think the white house is still running windows exclusively...you'd be wrong. The majority of desktops in the white house run Linux. The president's PC may be windows, or something like that. However, the staff have transitioned since the Bush Administration. That was one of the more "progressive" things Bush did for the country (it also helped trim quite a bit of fat from the budget by doing so...but I digress).

IPv6 connectivity from anywhere. Only a few of the DREN sites planned to support IPv6, yet the IPv6
pilot wanted to offer IPv6 connectivity to the entire HPCMP user community, including users at sites that
only supported IPv4. Providing connectivity was complicated by the variety of operating systems on the
users’ desktop computers, which included versions of Linux, UNIX, and a lesser number of PCs on Microsoft Windows, and Apple OS X.
Connectivity was provided by installing a pair of Hexago4 Gateway6 tunnel brokers at a total cost of less
than $70,000, one for users at IPv4-only DREN sites, and one for users on the Internet5.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/fea_docs/DREN_Success_Story.pdf

 

[sarinaide]

TechPowerUP GTX 780
TomshardwareNoobs

What is up with TH and retarded testing methodology but anyways my point is TH has the 780 well below the Titan, while other sites including TPU have the GTX 780 on par or slightly quicker which was what I was told last week and it subsequently turns out that the 780 is about par with the Titan and thats going to piss a lot of people off I did say on Titan's lauch wait for the 780 and save $400. Nvidia is a mess.

 

[gamerk316]

Also, if you consider, even the US Government has conceded Linux is worthy by switching over. Many public/private sector entities are switching over because it's more efficient, and has better security than windows.

Not just no, but hell no. The US Government most certainly isn't using Linux as a desktop OS and NT (Server 2003/2008/2012) is the prevalent server OS. You only see Linux is net-app style devices (McAfee security devices, RPAs, IDS and various other utility systems) or where they deploy ESXi. For heavy processing Solaris is the preferred choice, previously on SPARC but their now using x86 due to costing. This is pretty much the same thing you see in Corporate America and for a very good reason.

Microsoft provides an extremely wide range of management services and solutions along with best practices and a very robust credentialing system. That all works to reduce man-hour requirements for administration of IT services which is the largest driver of IT cost. A handful of college students with Linux knowledge may be able to provide services for small business's but absolutely doesn't work for Corporate solutions. The predominate Linux for big corporate isn't Ubuntu but RHEL and it's twin sibling CentOS. Anyone who's planning on working Linux in big IT needs to be intimately familiar with RHEL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

In July 2001[1] the White House started moving their computers to a Linux platform based on Red Hat Linux and Apache HTTP Server.[2] The installation was completed in February 2009.[3][4] In October 2009 the White House servers adopted Drupal, an open source content management system software distribution.[5][6]

The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux"[13] and the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux.[14]

In April 2006, the US Federal Aviation Administration announced that it had completed a migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million dollars

The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world's tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems.[34]

In June 2012 the US Navy signed a US$27,883,883 contract with Raytheon to install Linux ground control software for its fleet of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Northrup-Grumman MQ8B Fire Scout drones. The contract involves Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, which has already spent $5,175,075 in preparation for the Linux systems.[45]

The government hasn't what? If the White House and the DoD and all military installations and congressional offices use Linux...then what part of the government that's left wouldn't be using it?

Even the major stock exchanges run Linux:

The New York Stock Exchange uses Linux to run its trading applications.[86]

The Chi-X pan-European equity exchange runs its MarketPrizm trading platform software on Linux.[86]

The London Stock Exchange uses the Linux based MillenniumIT Millennium Exchange software for its trading platform and predicts that moving to Linux from Windows will give it an annual cost savings of at least £10 million ($14.7 million) from 2011-12[87][88]

It's coming...

EDIT: Of course it's RHEL, and they were changing the DoD over to Linux in pieces before I quit working for them 13 years ago...that was the "test bed" for the rest of the Government offices to my knowledge. The logic was Linux is free, and can be shaped into their demands for security much more easily than windows.

The SERVER uses Linux; the PCs that access it are ALL WinNT based.

*Works on contract for the DoD*