AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[Cazalan]

The USA doesn't have a shift or feeling towards Manufacture like they used to AFAIK, so there's no way they can compete: not humanly, not technically, not financially.

You can sum it up with 1 word "pollution". Here we have the EPA which makes everything manufacturing wise cost more. China can pollute as much as they want almost.

 

[-Fran-]

You can sum it up with 1 word "pollution". Here we have the EPA which makes everything manufacturing wise cost more. China can pollute as much as they want almost.

Yep, but the weird thing is that the USA didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol agreement, right?

Cheers!

 

[jdwii]

man wow now this thread has gone political mixed with business ethics and tax rates...
AMD see what you have done...?

As for a political comment, Obama does not deserve a second term in office.
@jdwii - I'm rubber and your glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you...
😛

Lol!

 

[r0ck3tm@n]

I don't know if you read Apple's justification as to why they shifted to China (Foxconn), but is more than "cheap labor". I would suppose that is one important reason as wel, but the second one is that China has a way of making things (manufacturing) so fast, few Countries in the world and compete: they adapt, build and create cities and towns around factories, moving thousands of people in the blink of an eye to produce stuff. The USA doesn't have a shift or feeling towards Manufacture like they used to AFAIK, so there's no way they can compete: not humanly, not technically, not financially. At least, technically is easy to overcome, but the other two... Ugh...

A friend of mine went to mainland China (he's from Hong Kong, but they make a distinction) and saw the famous "factory cities". He said it was friggin' amazing in a pure technical point of view, but he said people have a horrible life there.



A more mature process is a given, but is nice to hope/remember it 😛

I really hope they can squeeze at least 4.8Ghz with some room to spare at a respectable TDP (110W is not that bad, lol).

Cheers!

I can't say that I actually understand what I'm saying here but I wouldn't think that we should expect clock frequencies much more that what we are seeing for other cpus so I wouldn't expect 4.8, more like 4.0 or 4.2?

 

[jdwii]

I can't say that I actually understand what I'm saying here but I wouldn't think that we should expect clock frequencies much more that what we are seeing for other cpus so I wouldn't expect 4.8, more like 4.0 or 4.2?

The 4 core BD is already clocked that high! And that's on global foundries not so great 32nm die! But i do agree some what. A 4170 is still slower then a x4 975 or 980 though so amd should be looking at different ways to improve productivity.

 

[-Fran-]

Yep, the turbo thingy in the FX jumps at 4.2 in some CPUs, so it's pretty much do-able right now. Thing is, the process is so immature, you have to make a big jump in power consumption for a few extra Mhz.

With the clock mesh tech and a more mature (I really hope) process, they should be able to pack (stock/factory) turbos in the range of 4.6-4.8Ghz with decent room for OC. You add that to the compiler optimizations (Linux at least; GCC4.7 showed like a 20% increase; that's a sh!t ton for just 3 revisions/versions of the compiler), uarch improvements (maybe 10% avg) and some bigger OC potential and you could say they have a contender. Or at least, I have an upgrade, lol.

Cheers!

 

[palladin9479]

I don't know if you read Apple's justification as to why they shifted to China (Foxconn), but is more than "cheap labor". I would suppose that is one important reason as wel, but the second one is that China has a way of making things (manufacturing) so fast, few Countries in the world and compete: they adapt, build and create cities and towns around factories, moving thousands of people in the blink of an eye to produce stuff. The USA doesn't have a shift or feeling towards Manufacture like they used to AFAIK, so there's no way they can compete: not humanly, not technically, not financially. At least, technically is easy to overcome, but the other two... Ugh...

A friend of mine went to mainland China (he's from Hong Kong, but they make a distinction) and saw the famous "factory cities". He said it was friggin' amazing in a pure technical point of view, but he said people have a horrible life there.



A more mature process is a given, but is nice to hope/remember it 😛

I really hope they can squeeze at least 4.8Ghz with some room to spare at a respectable TDP (110W is not that bad, lol).

Cheers!

You do realize it's nearly slave labor right? Most of those workers are from west China which is horribly poor even by African standards. Many of those workers are there illegally (in China you need governmental approval to move outside your home region) but the Chinese governmental officials won't ever investigate. If those workers make waves or complaints, then the factory managers just notify the Chinese officials that it's "ok" to investigate that person, and then their either throw in jail, sent back to their home region without a job, or worse. This system allows the government to control it's citizens, the poor people are kept poor so as to provide an unlimited supply of cheap disposable labor while preventing a middle class from forming in west China.

The Chinese also do not respect international IP laws. In order for you to get something produced you need to submit a copy of your technical specifications and any IP to the Chinese government. In the fine print it specifies that the Chinese reserve the right to pass that information to a Chinese company to produce a domestic product. Basically anything you send over there will immediately be copied and produced. This was actually a big sore point to many western governments, they all expected China to eventually purchase products made from western countries and instead they copied them and produced them locally. This is the reason Intel will never build a FAB in China even though it would be dirt cheap to do so. The moment the FAB goes online the Chinese would have copied Intel's advanced fabrication technology and would start producing their own Chinese copies and selling that tech to other countries. It's also the reason my company doesn't have anything built in China, we can't afford the Chinese to acquire this technology (there's a law against unauthorized transfer of technology to foreign countries).

The only way for the world to deal with the Chinese would be to put a tax on anything being sent from them. Otherwise they'll destroy the economies of every other nation. You can't compete against slavery.

 

[archibael]

This is the reason Intel will never build a FAB in China even though it would be dirt cheap to do so. The moment the FAB goes online the Chinese would have copied Intel's advanced fabrication technology and would start producing their own Chinese copies and selling that tech to other countries.

Um... Intel has a fab in China.

 

[-Fran-]

You do realize it's nearly slave labor right? Most of those workers are from west China which is horribly poor even by African standards. Many of those workers are there illegally (in China you need governmental approval to move outside your home region) but the Chinese governmental officials won't ever investigate. If those workers make waves or complaints, then the factory managers just notify the Chinese officials that it's "ok" to investigate that person, and then their either throw in jail, sent back to their home region without a job, or worse. This system allows the government to control it's citizens, the poor people are kept poor so as to provide an unlimited supply of cheap disposable labor while preventing a middle class from forming in west China.

The Chinese also do not respect international IP laws. In order for you to get something produced you need to submit a copy of your technical specifications and any IP to the Chinese government. In the fine print it specifies that the Chinese reserve the right to pass that information to a Chinese company to produce a domestic product. Basically anything you send over there will immediately be copied and produced. This was actually a big sore point to many western governments, they all expected China to eventually purchase products made from western countries and instead they copied them and produced them locally. This is the reason Intel will never build a FAB in China even though it would be dirt cheap to do so. The moment the FAB goes online the Chinese would have copied Intel's advanced fabrication technology and would start producing their own Chinese copies and selling that tech to other countries. It's also the reason my company doesn't have anything built in China, we can't afford the Chinese to acquire this technology (there's a law against unauthorized transfer of technology to foreign countries).

The only way for the world to deal with the Chinese would be to put a tax on anything being sent from them. Otherwise they'll destroy the economies of every other nation. You can't compete against slavery.

Yep, that's precisely what I meant by "not compete humanly". The Chinese gov is making a blind eye to it's own people, how the hell a gov that actually cares for it's people can compete? XD

There are several countries that "love" to work and make extra hour shifts and such, but they do have laws that compensate it somehow and put limits on how much a company can make a person be "overworked" (cause, let's be honest here, Companies love to overwork people and then dump them); China I bet doesn't.

Um... Intel has a fab in China.

Not CPUs AFAIK. Those are in the USA and Malaysia IIRC. I'm sure sonoran can correct me here.

Cheers!

 

[truegenius]

You do realize it's nearly slave labor right? Most of those workers are from west China which is horribly poor even by African standards. Many of those workers are there illegally (in China you need governmental approval to move outside your home region) but the Chinese governmental officials won't ever investigate. If those workers make waves or complaints, then the factory managers just notify the Chinese officials that it's "ok" to investigate that person, and then their either throw in jail, sent back to their home region without a job, or worse. This system allows the government to control it's citizens, the poor people are kept poor so as to provide an unlimited supply of cheap disposable labor while preventing a middle class from forming in west China.

The Chinese also do not respect international IP laws. In order for you to get something produced you need to submit a copy of your technical specifications and any IP to the Chinese government. In the fine print it specifies that the Chinese reserve the right to pass that information to a Chinese company to produce a domestic product. Basically anything you send over there will immediately be copied and produced. This was actually a big sore point to many western governments, they all expected China to eventually purchase products made from western countries and instead they copied them and produced them locally. This is the reason Intel will never build a FAB in China even though it would be dirt cheap to do so. The moment the FAB goes online the Chinese would have copied Intel's advanced fabrication technology and would start producing their own Chinese copies and selling that tech to other countries. It's also the reason my company doesn't have anything built in China, we can't afford the Chinese to acquire this technology (there's a law against unauthorized transfer of technology to foreign countries).

The only way for the world to deal with the Chinese would be to put a tax on anything being sent from them. Otherwise they'll destroy the economies of every other nation. You can't compete against slavery.

:lol:

 

[earl45]

You do realize it's nearly slave labor right? Most of those workers are from west China which is horribly poor even by African standards. Many of those workers are there illegally (in China you need governmental approval to move outside your home region) but the Chinese governmental officials won't ever investigate. If those workers make waves or complaints, then the factory managers just notify the Chinese officials that it's "ok" to investigate that person, and then their either throw in jail, sent back to their home region without a job, or worse. This system allows the government to control it's citizens, the poor people are kept poor so as to provide an unlimited supply of cheap disposable labor while preventing a middle class from forming in west China.

The Chinese also do not respect international IP laws. In order for you to get something produced you need to submit a copy of your technical specifications and any IP to the Chinese government. In the fine print it specifies that the Chinese reserve the right to pass that information to a Chinese company to produce a domestic product. Basically anything you send over there will immediately be copied and produced. This was actually a big sore point to many western governments, they all expected China to eventually purchase products made from western countries and instead they copied them and produced them locally. This is the reason Intel will never build a FAB in China even though it would be dirt cheap to do so. The moment the FAB goes online the Chinese would have copied Intel's advanced fabrication technology and would start producing their own Chinese copies and selling that tech to other countries. It's also the reason my company doesn't have anything built in China, we can't afford the Chinese to acquire this technology (there's a law against unauthorized transfer of technology to foreign countries).

The only way for the world to deal with the Chinese would be to put a tax on anything being sent from them. Otherwise they'll destroy the economies of every other nation. You can't compete against slavery.

+1

 

[r0ck3tm@n]

You do realize it's nearly slave labor right?...

The Chinese also do not respect international IP laws. ...It's also the reason my company doesn't have anything built in China, we can't afford the Chinese to acquire this technology (there's a law against unauthorized transfer of technology to foreign countries).

The only way for the world to deal with the Chinese would be to put a tax on anything being sent from them. Otherwise they'll destroy the economies of every other nation. You can't compete against slavery.

Palladin, we can't afford for the Chinese to aquire you.

I actually agree on such a tax. On China labor and much more. I say this only because there is a need to save my country from an economic disaster. In the meanwhile, we, as a country, need to become sufficiently productive to where no taxes are needed.

 

[palladin9479]

Yep, that's precisely what I meant by "not compete humanly". The Chinese gov is making a blind eye to it's own people, how the hell a gov that actually cares for it's people can compete? XD

There are several countries that "love" to work and make extra hour shifts and such, but they do have laws that compensate it somehow and put limits on how much a company can make a person be "overworked" (cause, let's be honest here, Companies love to overwork people and then dump them); China I bet doesn't.



Not CPUs AFAIK. Those are in the USA and Malaysia IIRC. I'm sure sonoran can correct me here.

Cheers!

Laughing at the idea of Intel putting a 22nm FAB in China. You would see 22nm "Bentiums" being sold in no time. Heck they already sell the iPone, complete with a hacked Chinese version of iOS. I've actually seen them, Chinese exchange students are always coming out to Kyeongbuk University.

 

[r0ck3tm@n]

Laughing at the idea of Intel putting a 22nm FAB in China. You would see 22nm "Bentiums" being sold in no time. Heck they already sell the iPone, complete with a hacked Chinese version of iOS. I've actually seen them, Chinese exchange students are always coming out to Kyeongbuk University.

So, Palladin, you are Klingon?

 

[truegenius]

^bond, james bond 😀

 

[palladin9479]

So, Palladin, you are Klingon?

Nope but I spelled it wrong.

My City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu

Should of been Kyungpook University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyungpook_National_University

Difference between those two vowels is really hard for English speakers as they sound like slightly different long "a".

 

[g4114rd0]

TSMC to revise 2012 capex..."

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120409PD217.html

 

[BadTrip]

Not CPUs AFAIK. Those are in the USA and Malaysia IIRC. I'm sure sonoran can correct me here.

Cheers!

and archibael cannot?

 

[gamerk316]

Palladin, we can't afford for the Chinese to aquire you.

I actually agree on such a tax. On China labor and much more. I say this only because there is a need to save my country from an economic disaster. In the meanwhile, we, as a country, need to become sufficiently productive to where no taxes are needed.

Here's the problem: China would retaliate, and as both countries are basically economic slaves to eachother, it would come down to who blinks first.

Problem is, the Chinese leadership doesn't have democratic elections, so the US is more or less guaranteed to lose any long-term trade war due to the public wanting its stuff for cheaper. Hence why no one really wants to rock the China boat, as its understood the US would probably lose any major trade war with China. The irony being is corporations are pulling OUT of China because rising wages [due to a growing middle class] makes places like India more attractive.

 

[-Fran-]

and archibael cannot?

Haha, you're right; I didn't notice he was also from Intel xD

He could specify a lil' more, you know 😗

Cheers! 😛

 

[Cazalan]

Some odd looking numbers for Trinity.

http://www.techpowerup.com/163887/Trinity-%28Piledriver%29-Integer-FP-Performance-Higher-Than-Bulldozer-Clock-for-Clock.html

 

[-Fran-]

Not that much, since what its said in the article was totally expected: A tad better than BD, prolly still under Llano (K12? Wasn't K10.5? XD) in IPC, but higher clocks to compensate.

Now, if they say that it's 32nm process is still lacking and Trinity won't be delivered with higher clocks to compensate, then we have a serious problem, hahaha.

Cheers!

 

[truegenius]

:lol:
if those score increase linearly with clock, then a 4ghz ph2x4 will perform equal to 3.7ghz i5

 

[Cazalan]

:lol:
if those score increase linearly with clock, then a 4ghz ph2x4 will perform equal to 3.7ghz i5

That's the odd part. The scores weren't scaling linearly with the clock. Probably why no one else linked the chart. Oh well, not much else is new to look at.

 

[g4114rd0]

AMD Trinity - Quad core Ultrathin notebook processing within 17W limit?..."

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-trinity--quad-core-ultrathin-notebook-processing-within-17w-limit-/15511.html