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There are so many uneducated/unemployed trolls on this forum it is bordering on 4chan.
1.) For those of you saying "stuff Blizzard I won't be buying this game in protest" good riddance, you are not a true Diablo fan and were probably in Kindergarten when we were playing Diablo. Any true fan would not carry on like a spoilt brat.
2.) There is a very good reason for excluding off-line play, actually 2 reasons.
a.) It prevents hacking, because the characters files are never exposed, which means hackers are unable to exploit vulnerabilities in the character files or EVEN gain an understanding of their structure. With all data saved to the secure cloud, hackers would need to compromise the cloud JUST to see the data structure. This won't eliminate hacks but it greatly reduces them.
b.) The other reason is, offline players amount to 0.01% of the population and Blizzard want to release this year, so features that are supported by the minorities are left out. Sorry!
1.) For those of you saying "stuff Blizzard I won't be buying this game in protest" good riddance, you are not a true Diablo fan and were probably in Kindergarten when we were playing Diablo. Any true fan would not carry on like a spoilt brat.
2.) There is a very good reason for excluding off-line play, actually 2 reasons.
a.) It prevents hacking, because the characters files are never exposed, which means hackers are unable to exploit vulnerabilities in the character files or EVEN gain an understanding of their structure. With all data saved to the secure cloud, hackers would need to compromise the cloud JUST to see the data structure. This won't eliminate hacks but it greatly reduces them.
b.) The other reason is, offline players amount to 0.01% of the population and Blizzard want to release this year, so features that are supported by the minorities are left out. Sorry!
zybch
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- Mar 17, 2010
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[citation][nom]WhysoBluepandabear[/nom]Um, no. You're an idiot. You're not going to cap on this game, or run GB worth of data a month on it. It's equivalent to very light web browsing.[/citation]
Really? You've never played WoW then have you, with its multi Gb updates and patches that you need to be allowed to play.
Really? You've never played WoW then have you, with its multi Gb updates and patches that you need to be allowed to play.
This guy is a Idiot.Period.He should be surprised.It’s not the point that most people have, online connections, it’s the fact their forcing you to have one and giving you no option. Especially with Internet providers starting to cap bandwidth, this is just not cool.Also this was game that in it’s series Diablo 1 & 2, were mainly single player games with multiplayer thrown in. If i wanted a MMO I would just play the myriad other MMO’s out there. Skyrim doesn’t require a always on connection,and that game will sell as much as Diablo will,if Bethesda can do it, why not Blizzard? Reason? we want to milk PC’ user’s for all there worth, and since were not going to tap into console’s with Diablo(yet) we need to guarantee we get crazy cash from PC users.SO my option ,I will not buy the game. If other PC users do this then we can send a message. Listen people, the reality is the PC gamer world is shit on most of the time by developer’s because they complain about piracy or there’s not enough money, so we get cast offs from console’s and no respect. Developers need to follow the example of CD-Projekt with the Witcher 2, They know how to take care of there PC gamer community. They made the game for PC first, Yes it was buggy, but they have patched it and as a result we have a excellent quality, graphically awesome game worthy of our money!!! THE only way were going to get quality games, and without stupid DRM crap, or other asinine add-on’s is if we speak with our wallets people. IF you guy’s become suckers and just go out and buy it anyway, then Blizzard won’t fear and respect their customer base, WHICH IS US!! THE PC GAMER!!!! STAND TOGETHER PEOPLE!!!!!
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]There is a very good reason for excluding off-line play, actually 2 reasons.a.) It prevents hacking, because the characters files are never exposed, which means hackers are unable to exploit vulnerabilities in the character files or EVEN gain an understanding of their structure.[/citation]
I don't think gaining an understanding of the underlying data structures is going to help much trying to compromise an online server. And once a server is compromised, they can download data files to analyze. So hiding the data structures doesn't gain much.
I also doubt that the data structures will only be server-side in memory (although there might not be any local data files on disk). If everything is server-side it means solo play has server latency instead of local (zero) latency, which is a massive downgrade.
As for item duping / creation hacks - this problem is fairly easy to avoid as long as you don't ignore it.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]With all data saved to the secure cloud, hackers would need to compromise the cloud JUST to see the data structure.[/citation]
I don't think you can really call that the cloud, unless you want to call the entire Internet the cloud.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]The other reason is, offline players amount to 0.01% of the population[/citation]That is utter garbage. In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if it were over a third for D2. It would be less for D3 if available, but I'm positive it'd be over 20%, if you include those with both offline and online chars.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]and Blizzard want to release this year, so features that are supported by the minorities are left out. Sorry![/citation]
As a programmer I can tell you it will take more effort by far to attempt to keep solo play online than to provide offline play. All the offline play functionality exists. The obfuscation and server checks they'll put in to try to prevent solo play hacks will likely require massive code adjustments.
I don't think gaining an understanding of the underlying data structures is going to help much trying to compromise an online server. And once a server is compromised, they can download data files to analyze. So hiding the data structures doesn't gain much.
I also doubt that the data structures will only be server-side in memory (although there might not be any local data files on disk). If everything is server-side it means solo play has server latency instead of local (zero) latency, which is a massive downgrade.
As for item duping / creation hacks - this problem is fairly easy to avoid as long as you don't ignore it.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]With all data saved to the secure cloud, hackers would need to compromise the cloud JUST to see the data structure.[/citation]
I don't think you can really call that the cloud, unless you want to call the entire Internet the cloud.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]The other reason is, offline players amount to 0.01% of the population[/citation]That is utter garbage. In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if it were over a third for D2. It would be less for D3 if available, but I'm positive it'd be over 20%, if you include those with both offline and online chars.
[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]and Blizzard want to release this year, so features that are supported by the minorities are left out. Sorry![/citation]
As a programmer I can tell you it will take more effort by far to attempt to keep solo play online than to provide offline play. All the offline play functionality exists. The obfuscation and server checks they'll put in to try to prevent solo play hacks will likely require massive code adjustments.
Any game that requires a constant internet connection to play single player won't be getting my hard-earned money. This kind of onerous DRM hasn't stopped pirates in the past and it won't now, it just punishes the honest paying customers. Oh and what happens when Blizzard servers go down? We all know how 100% reliable and stable Blizzard's servers are. *cough* Ubi Orbit *cough*
Here is a totally crazy idea: if you do not like what Blizzard is doing with Diablo 3, you simply do not have to buy the game. It is no different than all those who have moaned and complained about the changes Blizzard has made to WoW, yet they continue to play (or return after getting bored of other MMORPGS). Every time a developer decides to do something that some gamers do not like, they turn it into some epic philosophical debate which is totally unnecessary. And anyone who has not played the original Diablo games on the old battle.net is not really informed enough about the situation to have a valid opinion. It was a non-stop hack-a-thon. As a loyal fan of the Diablo franchise, I welcome anything Blizzard can do to prevent the prevalence of cheating that permeated almost every facet of Diablo 1/2.
amk-aka-Phantom
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- Mar 10, 2011
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It's not about stupid D3... It's about the tendency spreading onto other, good games that we won't be able to resist buying. What if Skyrim decides to do that? Or Mass Effect 3? THESE games I won't be able to pass up, so I want the tendency to be killed before it can develop. THAT's the real issue here.
Once again, if you do not like what any developer is doing with a game, you as the consumer can opt not to buy it. Blizzard has the unfortunate distinction of having some of the most hacked games in history. They have done a wonderful job curbing that in WoW and SC2. They are going to do it in D3, whether you (or any others) like it or not.
And if this was such a horrendous affront to gaming as a whole, then their sales will reflect it when consumers rise up and boycott the product. This is not going to happen. If other developers want to follow this trend to curb cheating as well, I am totally behind them and will consider their selection of games before others.
neiroatopelcc
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- Oct 3, 2006
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Another game spoiled by greed!
Too bad really. I had hopes for Diablo. Although given the quality of starcraft 2, not high hopes.
Too bad really. I had hopes for Diablo. Although given the quality of starcraft 2, not high hopes.
Here's an idea, if you don't like DRM don't buy new computer games... oh wait, that's not a good idea.
To put it another way, what if, in the future, every quality game manufacturer goes fully online, say to the extent that all major solo games now have server latency, because everyone gives in and buys it anyway.
Completely relying on market forces to improve things routinely fails. That's why regulations exist.
Also, part of the problem is that ditching the minorities is bad.
Commercial property requires wheelchair access (at least in my country). If this weren't the law, many companies would not do this (as is shown by the number of companies that didn't prior to the law).
If you think companies should be required to not discriminate against the mobility impaired when it costs (directly) lots to avoid, then why shouldn't companies be required to not discriminate against the connectivity impaired when it costs (directly) less than nothing.
To put it another way, what if, in the future, every quality game manufacturer goes fully online, say to the extent that all major solo games now have server latency, because everyone gives in and buys it anyway.
Completely relying on market forces to improve things routinely fails. That's why regulations exist.
Also, part of the problem is that ditching the minorities is bad.
Commercial property requires wheelchair access (at least in my country). If this weren't the law, many companies would not do this (as is shown by the number of companies that didn't prior to the law).
If you think companies should be required to not discriminate against the mobility impaired when it costs (directly) lots to avoid, then why shouldn't companies be required to not discriminate against the connectivity impaired when it costs (directly) less than nothing.
Don't worry Blizzard, people can't handle change and the way games are merging with the internet scares them. Just keep plowing through, new generations will thank you.
neiroatopelcc
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- Oct 3, 2006
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[citation][nom]Frokusblakah[/nom]Don't worry Blizzard, people can't handle change and the way games are merging with the internet scares them. Just keep plowing through, new generations will thank you.[/citation]
It doesn't scare us, it aggrevates us. Lowering quality and reliability for profit should not be honored in the way you do. When you grow up you'll realize.
It doesn't scare us, it aggrevates us. Lowering quality and reliability for profit should not be honored in the way you do. When you grow up you'll realize.
Jax69
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- Feb 7, 2007
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Tt's just wrong to play solo with a constant internet connection, maybe this game will be the first ever Blizzard fail, but i hope not, and i also hope they will fix this crap. I never played a multiplayer game in my life, i don't have the time to, but i enjoy playing a single-player game as i please and when i want to. Blizzard please take our word in to consideration.
wildkitten
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- May 29, 2008
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[citation][nom]crus_russ[/nom]There are so many uneducated/unemployed trolls on this forum it is bordering on 4chan.1.) For those of you saying "stuff Blizzard I won't be buying this game in protest" good riddance, you are not a true Diablo fan and were probably in Kindergarten when we were playing Diablo. Any true fan would not carry on like a spoilt brat.2.) There is a very good reason for excluding off-line play, actually 2 reasons.a.) It prevents hacking, because the characters files are never exposed, which means hackers are unable to exploit vulnerabilities in the character files or EVEN gain an understanding of their structure. With all data saved to the secure cloud, hackers would need to compromise the cloud JUST to see the data structure. This won't eliminate hacks but it greatly reduces them.b.) The other reason is, offline players amount to 0.01% of the population and Blizzard want to release this year, so features that are supported by the minorities are left out. Sorry![/citation]
What is it with people who disagree with having choices resulting to immature insults. I find it ironic that you insult others by calling them uneducated, but your post reveals you to be one of the more uneducated here. However I will respond point by point.
1.) Sorry, this point makes you sound like you were never a Diablo, or a true Blizzard, fan. This D3 announcment is more along the Bobby Kotick style of game development, not the traditional Blizzard way which was always about choice for gamers. And just because people voice their opinions does not make them spoiled brats. It's people like you who seem to take personal offense that people have legitimate issues with how Diablo 3 will be done that act spoiled.
2 a.)Yes, it will prevent hacking. However, when did someone hacking the single player game in Diablo 2 hurt you? You couldn't play a single player character in the "official" online version. However, while it MIGHT prevent hacking, what it will not do is stop the gold sellers and bots. If anything, because of the real money auction house the gold sellers and bots will be out in force trying to get as many drops as possible. And since even the single player game is controlled online, so will the drop of items. Blizzard will not want the auction house diluted with 1000 of the same items, in fact they have even come out and said they will get rid of an item if there are too many, because it will cut into their Kotick style profits of the AH. So legitimate players will have to compete with hundreds of thousands of gold sellers and botters for drops which will reduce the drop rate for real players. This is a point none of the insulters like you care to address.
B.)If you want to throw out a statistic, show your information backing it up. Sorry, it is lear your "0.01%" is merely made up by you to try to bolster your unreasoned point. The fact is the reason Diablo was so successful was the enormous popularity of the demo for the original game was SINGLE PLAYER ONLY. If people did not like it from a single player standpoint, the game would never have taken off the way it did.
What is it with people who disagree with having choices resulting to immature insults. I find it ironic that you insult others by calling them uneducated, but your post reveals you to be one of the more uneducated here. However I will respond point by point.
1.) Sorry, this point makes you sound like you were never a Diablo, or a true Blizzard, fan. This D3 announcment is more along the Bobby Kotick style of game development, not the traditional Blizzard way which was always about choice for gamers. And just because people voice their opinions does not make them spoiled brats. It's people like you who seem to take personal offense that people have legitimate issues with how Diablo 3 will be done that act spoiled.
2 a.)Yes, it will prevent hacking. However, when did someone hacking the single player game in Diablo 2 hurt you? You couldn't play a single player character in the "official" online version. However, while it MIGHT prevent hacking, what it will not do is stop the gold sellers and bots. If anything, because of the real money auction house the gold sellers and bots will be out in force trying to get as many drops as possible. And since even the single player game is controlled online, so will the drop of items. Blizzard will not want the auction house diluted with 1000 of the same items, in fact they have even come out and said they will get rid of an item if there are too many, because it will cut into their Kotick style profits of the AH. So legitimate players will have to compete with hundreds of thousands of gold sellers and botters for drops which will reduce the drop rate for real players. This is a point none of the insulters like you care to address.
B.)If you want to throw out a statistic, show your information backing it up. Sorry, it is lear your "0.01%" is merely made up by you to try to bolster your unreasoned point. The fact is the reason Diablo was so successful was the enormous popularity of the demo for the original game was SINGLE PLAYER ONLY. If people did not like it from a single player standpoint, the game would never have taken off the way it did.
wildkitten
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- May 29, 2008
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[citation][nom]Neslepax[/nom]Here is a totally crazy idea: if you do not like what Blizzard is doing with Diablo 3, you simply do not have to buy the game. It is no different than all those who have moaned and complained about the changes Blizzard has made to WoW, yet they continue to play (or return after getting bored of other MMORPGS). Every time a developer decides to do something that some gamers do not like, they turn it into some epic philosophical debate which is totally unnecessary. And anyone who has not played the original Diablo games on the old battle.net is not really informed enough about the situation to have a valid opinion. It was a non-stop hack-a-thon. As a loyal fan of the Diablo franchise, I welcome anything Blizzard can do to prevent the prevalence of cheating that permeated almost every facet of Diablo 1/2.[/citation]
Don't worry, I won't be. However, I am willing to bet that vivendi shareholders have an interest in knowing WHY some people will not be buying a product. as a player of over 6+ years of World of Warcraft, Blizzard often kept discontent threads up so they could get feedback of WHY people didn't like something. Until a couple of years ago when the merger happened, they tended to listen to.
Don't worry, I won't be. However, I am willing to bet that vivendi shareholders have an interest in knowing WHY some people will not be buying a product. as a player of over 6+ years of World of Warcraft, Blizzard often kept discontent threads up so they could get feedback of WHY people didn't like something. Until a couple of years ago when the merger happened, they tended to listen to.
wildkitten
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[citation][nom]Neslepax[/nom]Once again, if you do not like what any developer is doing with a game, you as the consumer can opt not to buy it. Blizzard has the unfortunate distinction of having some of the most hacked games in history. They have done a wonderful job curbing that in WoW and SC2. They are going to do it in D3, whether you (or any others) like it or not. And if this was such a horrendous affront to gaming as a whole, then their sales will reflect it when consumers rise up and boycott the product. This is not going to happen. If other developers want to follow this trend to curb cheating as well, I am totally behind them and will consider their selection of games before others.[/citation]
Sorry, but you must not have played WoW. I can't speak for SC2 cause I have never played the multiplayer portion.
However while hacking items in WoW is not done, cheating and botting routinely is and is rarely stopped. about every year or two they come out and talk about how botters or arena cheaters are banned, but it's nearly impossible to tell it from actual gameplay. For years gold sellers have been using the same underground hacks to get herb and mineral nodes. Blizzard doesn't even try to stop it anymore.
And please explain how being online only will only be a benefit to single players? To keep people from hacking, drops, even in single player, will have to be done by the server. With the real money AH involved, Blizzard will not want each individual instance of a single player game session to have the exact same chances at items, that would massively flood the AH and they have already said they will change items if too many of a kind get put on. So players will have to compete with gold sellers and botters. No, it isn't cheating per se, but that's only because the activity will be legitimized. You will have latency which would not exist locally, and while not always an issue, it often is in WoW so the track record is not that good.
So instead of you and others using hyperbole and insults, why not actually address these very real issues.
Sorry, but you must not have played WoW. I can't speak for SC2 cause I have never played the multiplayer portion.
However while hacking items in WoW is not done, cheating and botting routinely is and is rarely stopped. about every year or two they come out and talk about how botters or arena cheaters are banned, but it's nearly impossible to tell it from actual gameplay. For years gold sellers have been using the same underground hacks to get herb and mineral nodes. Blizzard doesn't even try to stop it anymore.
And please explain how being online only will only be a benefit to single players? To keep people from hacking, drops, even in single player, will have to be done by the server. With the real money AH involved, Blizzard will not want each individual instance of a single player game session to have the exact same chances at items, that would massively flood the AH and they have already said they will change items if too many of a kind get put on. So players will have to compete with gold sellers and botters. No, it isn't cheating per se, but that's only because the activity will be legitimized. You will have latency which would not exist locally, and while not always an issue, it often is in WoW so the track record is not that good.
So instead of you and others using hyperbole and insults, why not actually address these very real issues.
I'm a long time Blizzard fan. SC II (colectors edition) was the last PC game I bought.
I do have 3G access 24/7 and broadband at home, I'm always connected. Still, I won't allow anyone to tell me to get connected for no valid reason. The only online games I play are FPSs. RTSs and RPGs I like to play them alone.
I was planning on buying D3 colectors edition, but due to this I will wait for the offline patch. If they maintain their position it'll be no big deal. There are lots of other good games out there. The game will still be sucessfull though. The "majority" does not seem to mind.
In the end, it's their product so they choose what to do with it. I understand their reasons, but their liberty is clashing with my own.
I do have 3G access 24/7 and broadband at home, I'm always connected. Still, I won't allow anyone to tell me to get connected for no valid reason. The only online games I play are FPSs. RTSs and RPGs I like to play them alone.
I was planning on buying D3 colectors edition, but due to this I will wait for the offline patch. If they maintain their position it'll be no big deal. There are lots of other good games out there. The game will still be sucessfull though. The "majority" does not seem to mind.
In the end, it's their product so they choose what to do with it. I understand their reasons, but their liberty is clashing with my own.
[citation][nom]sfergu03[/nom]I think Blizzard peaked with Warcraft 3, it's been $$$ signs in the eyes ever since WoW.[/citation]
It happens to every company that goes from a driven bunch of fans and artists to become a suit company that works more with spreadsheets than the actual games. Just look at Blizzard, Activision (back in the days), Electronic Arts, Ubisoft ect ect. Once the suits get in - the fun walks out...
It happens to every company that goes from a driven bunch of fans and artists to become a suit company that works more with spreadsheets than the actual games. Just look at Blizzard, Activision (back in the days), Electronic Arts, Ubisoft ect ect. Once the suits get in - the fun walks out...
if you want a chuckle, read this article from 2 months ago with blizzard's co-founder expressing his desire to stay away from invasive DRM practices, lolol
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/diablo-warcraft-starcraft-drm,10528.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/diablo-warcraft-starcraft-drm,10528.html
mobrocket
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- Feb 28, 2011
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I love how many people on here complain about this and say cus of this one reason i wont buy a game. But most of those same people didnt plan on buying it anyways, they were going to steal it
i think for gamers its best, because if not people would just hack their character and then get online... dont u/s the fun in cheating but either way it happens
i think for gamers its best, because if not people would just hack their character and then get online... dont u/s the fun in cheating but either way it happens
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