Branding strategy (NPP, no artifacts)

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long
dead. (I am reverse level scumming somewhat, until the competition
moderator finally gives us a break, and lets us officially turn off
auto-scum when we feel like it.)

Anyway, question about branding: I just found a 5d4 (mod) scythe, and a
2d9 (mod) quarterstaff, which are now parked. Is it worth trying to
brand these?
Right now I'm using a 1d9 Double-branded (Acid + Poison) Quarterstaff.


The downside is, if the brand isn't poison, I won't be able to use it
right now. The real question is: how much longer should it take before
I see a better poison-branded weapon? Or am I likely to find better
(modded) branding candidates soon? (Target weight is 18 pounds max, for
STR! 18/100)

Here's a stat summary:

1d9 Quarterstaff (4 blows, +9 enchantment)
78 HP/round (4 blows, IM_ACID && IM_POIS)
110 HP/round (4blows, most monsters)

5d4 Scythe (same enchantment; now it's only +3; nearly comparable to
unmodded Lochaber Axe.)
82.5 HP/round (3 blows, invulnerable)
158 HP/round (3 blows, vulnerable)
110 HP/round (4 blows, invulnerable)
210 HP/round (4 blows, vulnerable) (ooooh!)

2d9 Quarterstaff (Even better!)
96/round (4 blows invulnerable)
168/round (4 blows, vulnerable)
120/round (5 blows, invulnerable)
210/round (5 blows, vulnerable)

>From what I can tell, there are only 3 better unmodded weapons than the
quarterstaff, given Kelumen's weight constraints, and they are the big
ones:
Scythe of Slicing, Mace of Disruption, and Blade of Chaos. And the
only modded weapons would be 3d8 Battle Axe, 5d4/4d5 Great Axe, or 4d8
Lochaber axe(!). Should I just keep hoping for these?


In the unlikely event Kelumen reaches 170 STR, he would get 5 blows
from the Scythe, too. Without artifacts, I don't see how that could
happen.


cash on hand: 250K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
> there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long

Destruction [surely you have the staves by now] is moderately
effective at destroying pits. And m-a-b will detect the pits before
ESP if you are careful to cast it every time the screen moves, and
you manually move the screen when you make it 3/4 of the way across.

> dead. (I am reverse level scumming somewhat, until the competition
> moderator finally gives us a break, and lets us officially turn off
> auto-scum when we feel like it.)
>
> Anyway, question about branding: I just found a 5d4 (mod) scythe, and a
> 2d9 (mod) quarterstaff, which are now parked. Is it worth trying to
> brand these?
> Right now I'm using a 1d9 Double-branded (Acid + Poison)
> Quarterstaff.

Why do you care? I ask in all seriousness.

IIRC, you do 2 shots * (2x mult) * (1d2 + 36 * 2/3) firing boring
pebbles from an unenchanted sling, or about 100/round. Enchant the
sling and pebbles and you can double that to 200. Brand the ammo and
you are up to 600 [well, 500 anyway before the enchants get pricy].

If I wanted to replace the quarterstaff, I might brand a broken dagger
so I could carry more ammo before reaching my weight limit. Don't
squelch cursed ones if you decide to look for them! It is easy enough
to cure (-20,-20) if the brand turns out to be poison. [Perhaps I am
carrying this too far, but you get the drift.]

> Here's a stat summary:
>
> 1d9 Quarterstaff (4 blows, +9 enchantment)
> 78 HP/round (4 blows, IM_ACID && IM_POIS)
> 110 HP/round (4blows, most monsters)
>
> 5d4 Scythe (same enchantment; now it's only +3; nearly comparable to
> unmodded Lochaber Axe.)
> 82.5 HP/round (3 blows, invulnerable)
> 158 HP/round (3 blows, vulnerable)
> 110 HP/round (4 blows, invulnerable)
> 210 HP/round (4 blows, vulnerable) (ooooh!)
>
> 2d9 Quarterstaff (Even better!)
> 96/round (4 blows invulnerable)
> 168/round (4 blows, vulnerable)
> 120/round (5 blows, invulnerable)
> 210/round (5 blows, vulnerable)

Those 210s aren't in the same ballpark as 500/600, and even when the
opp resists all three of fire/cold/poison you still do a lot more
than 120 with the sling.


Eddie

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie writes:
>Why do you care [what your weapon is]? I ask in all seriousness.

>IIRC, you do 2 shots * (2x mult) * (1d2 + 36 * 2/3) firing boring
>pebbles from an unenchanted sling, or about 100/round. Enchant the
>sling and pebbles and you can double that to 200. Brand the ammo and
>you are up to 600 [well, 500 anyway before the enchants get pricy].

Well, I take your point, although it is overstated. And in fact my
sling is not boring quite so boring at (+13,+14) +1 Might. I'm just
not accustomed to branding ammo like crazy, though that is changing
rapidly. However, your calculation is incorrect. The rogue bonus is
not multiplied.

So a boring sling does: 2* (36*2/3 + 2*1d2) = 54 HP/round, and not much
better for branded ammo. A heavily enchanted x2 boring sling does
around 300/round, branded ammo, about the same as a Xbow of Might, for
twice the equipment cost.

With my sling, and~+5 damage branded, I get ~420 HP/round. (Extra shot
h. xbow would be about the same, since the accuracy would be noticeably
worse.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> However, your calculation is incorrect. The rogue bonus is
> not multiplied.

Now that's just strange.

You posted this before, but it didn't penetrate my skull.

There need to be, on the 'C' screen, two categories of missile
damage -- multiplied and non-multiplied. Or is that too ugly?

I was just about to switch from a xbow(x4)(+19,+13)(+1) to a
sling(x2)(+23,+21) and now I have to reconsider.

Thanks for straightening me out.


Eddie

 

[Antoine]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

pete mack wrote:
> In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
> there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long
> dead. (I am reverse level scumming somewhat, until the competition
> moderator finally gives us a break, and lets us officially turn off
> auto-scum when we feel like it.)
>
> Anyway, question about branding: I just found a 5d4 (mod) scythe, and
a
> 2d9 (mod) quarterstaff, which are now parked. Is it worth trying to
> brand these?
> Right now I'm using a 1d9 Double-branded (Acid + Poison)
Quarterstaff.
>
>
> The downside is, if the brand isn't poison, I won't be able to use it
> right now. The real question is: how much longer should it take
before
> I see a better poison-branded weapon?

Why do you value poison brand so highly?? (As opposed to any other
brand)

A.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie writes:
>I was just about to switch from a xbow(x4)(+19,+13)(+1) to a
>sling(x2)(+23,+21) and now I have to reconsider.

Eddie, I spoke too soon. I did a little source-diving, and saw that
the breakage chance for shot is 10% (on misses), but for bolts is 25%.
Arrows are terrible, at 35%.

So, the sling ammo is actually noticably cheaper than the xbow ammo.
Go ahead and swap weapons. Since the tohit is much higher for shot,
you will lose something like 3-4 times more bolts per firing, or 1.5-2
times as much lossage per unit damage.

And you are still doing 394 damage per round, vs 315 for the xbow, not
to mention 30 point better accuracy. That sling is a much better
weapon, and only 1/3 the ammo cost.

 

[Antoine]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
> > there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long
>
> Destruction [surely you have the staves by now] is moderately
> effective at destroying pits. And m-a-b will detect the pits before
> ESP if you are careful to cast it every time the screen moves, and
> you manually move the screen when you make it 3/4 of the way across.

Noob question: How do you manually move the screen?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Antoine" <mail@guildgame.com> writes:

> Eddie Grove wrote:
>> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
>> > there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long
>>
>> Destruction [surely you have the staves by now] is moderately
>> effective at destroying pits. And m-a-b will detect the pits before
>> ESP if you are careful to cast it every time the screen moves, and
>> you manually move the screen when you make it 3/4 of the way across.
>
> Noob question: How do you manually move the screen?

'L' -- upper case -- followed by arrow keys.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> Eddie writes:
>>I was just about to switch from a xbow(x4)(+19,+13)(+1) to a
>>sling(x2)(+23,+21) and now I have to reconsider.
>
> Eddie, I spoke too soon. I did a little source-diving, and saw that
> the breakage chance for shot is 10% (on misses), but for bolts is 25%.
> Arrows are terrible, at 35%.

Branded ammo is cheap enough if you don't waste your money on
other things. I don't really worry about that too much.

> So, the sling ammo is actually noticably cheaper than the xbow ammo.
> Go ahead and swap weapons. Since the tohit is much higher for shot,
> you will lose something like 3-4 times more bolts per firing, or 1.5-2
> times as much lossage per unit damage.
>
> And you are still doing 394 damage per round, vs 315 for the xbow, not
> to mention 30 point better accuracy. That sling is a much better
> weapon, and only 1/3 the ammo cost.

Maybe you misunderstood me. That +1 is shots (I'd call +1 might an
x5) so with +7 branded ammo [that's generally what it takes to merge]
it is 23*8*3 versus 30*4*3 + 4*Level/3.

When you factor in the hit advantage, it looks roughly equivalent.
But with seeker ammo, I'd guess the xbow wins handily [and there are
not any seeker shots]. Also, mithril bolts get a 3x mod but mithril
shots get a 2x mod, so that's yet another reason to stick with the
xbow.

I've seen several decent xbows, only the one sling. There are two
types of xbow vs one type of sling and Buckland is twice as rare as
Haradrim so that sort of thing is likely to continue.


I guess for the duration I will sign these messages


Slingless Rogue

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo P writes:
>Can _all_ items with random features get more than one effect?

Well, I always assumed that the objects are called "Of the Elements"
and "Of *Slays*", and "Of Resistances" for a reason. Otherwise they
would just be "Of Frost" or "Of *Slay Dragon*" or "Of Acid Resistance".
Since resistance armor shows up so much, it's where I first noticed
the double-effect. Never seen triple.

I don't have a good feel for what the multiplier is; maybe 1-3%?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

pete mack wrote:

> Actually, I'm pretty happy with that double-branded Quarterstaff. I

Double-branded???

<checks below....>

> a) a Quarterstaff of the Elements (1d9) (+8,+10)
> It is branded with acid and poison. It provides resistance
> to acid and poison. It cannot be harmed by acid. It gives
> you 4 attacks per turn.

Damn, damn, damn. I have been squelching these weapons. Double brand is
very very good. Much better than slays. There are very few monsters that
resist two elements and those that do usually resist them all.
Acid-brand alone is very good, and combined with poison even better. Too
bad this weapon has small dice.

Squelch for these is going to get removed right about now.

Timo Pietilä

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

>In case you missed it: Timo has announced that you may change the
>auto-scum setting. Questless and artifactless is what this quest is
>about, nothing else.

Thanks Hugo, I did eventually notice Timo's post, though it's good to
hear it from you. Even without autoscum, I expect my character to die
RSN anyway. I'm at about my depth limit, even with a more robust
character.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113412642.385348.324780@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Timo P writes:
> >Can _all_ items with random features get more than one effect?
>
{snip part of post}

Yes. Everything with random features.

>
> I don't have a good feel for what the multiplier is; maybe 1-3%?
>
It automatically adds one, then continues to add more every time it passes a
one in 20 test. So the odds of having more than one are 1 in 20, having or
more is one in 400 odds......I plan on doing the same with some of the base
objects, like having ring of sustain stats (that can have more than one) and
rings of increase stat, that can have more than one stat as well. Of
course, the more stats the ring has, the less likely of it being +6.

I want to see the first person who gets a cloak of aman with 3 or more
immunities.

-Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä wrote:
> pete mack wrote:
>
>> Actually, I'm pretty happy with that double-branded Quarterstaff. I
>
> Double-branded???

This raises up an question:

Can _all_ items with random features get more than one effect?

IE can I have cloak of magi with FA and Telepathy (or more)? Or weapon
of *slay* with kill dragon, demon and undead.

This makes me check those items much more carefully than before (I just
recently noticed that some dragon armors can have random features too...).

Timo Pietilä

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 12 Apr 2005 15:42:57 -0700, pete mack wrote:

>In this insane competition, I've reached clev 36, dlev 2300'. And
>there's a hydra pit on every other level. Without ESP, I'd be long
>dead. (I am reverse level scumming somewhat, until the competition
>moderator finally gives us a break, and lets us officially turn off
>auto-scum when we feel like it.)
(snip)

Hi pete,

In case you missed it: Timo has announced that you may change the
auto-scum setting. Questless and artifactless is what this quest is
about, nothing else.

Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Jeff Greene wrote:

> I want to see the first person who gets a cloak of aman with 3 or more
> immunities.

Too bad I didn't save that non-challenge char. That had Aman with three
immunities. Acid, fire and cold.

Timo Pietilä