Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (
More info?)
On Fri, 28 May 2004 12:21:41 -0400, Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
Ball Lightning
{R}{R}{R}
Creature -- Ball-Lightning
6/1
Trample; haste
At end of turn, sacrifice Ball Lightning.
AEther Vial
{1}
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
AEther Vial.
{T}: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the
number of charge counters on AEther Vial from your hand into play.
Lightning Coils
{3}
Artifact
Whenever a nontoken creature you control is put into a graveyard from
play, put a charge counter on ~this~.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~this~ has five or more charge
counters on it, remove all of them from it and put that many 3/1 red
Elemental creature tokens with haste into play. Remove them from the
game at end of turn.
Chimeric Egg
{3}
Artifact
Whenever an opponent plays a nonartifact spell, put a charge counter
on Chimeric Egg.
Remove three charge counters from Chimeric Egg: Chimeric Egg becomes a
6/6 artifact creature with trample until end of turn.
>to make sure that i am clear on this...
>
>if i use an aether vial during my opponents end phase and cast a Ball
>Lightning... the ball lightning will not have to be sacrificed until
>the end up my turn that is about to start.
You don't use AEther Vial to cast (correct word; play) your creature,
AEther Vial puts it into play - not too important here, but think
Phage...
Anyway, a Ball Lightning that comes into play during your opponents
end of turn step, won't self-sac untill the beginning of the next end
of turn step (your eot step, unless we are talking multiplayer).
>this would also work for lightning coils (not the aether vial part) and
>the chimeric egg, right?
I don't see how you want the Coils to put anything into play during
the end of turn step, as it says "At the beginning of your upkeep,
if...". But if somehow it did, then yes - the token creatures would
stay untill your end of turn.
On the other hand, you can animate the Egg during the opponents end of
turn step, but its duration says "until end of turn", not "at end of
turn", and thus it stops during the cleanup step, and will under no
circumstances stay animated into your turn (on its own that is, March
of Machines...).
Try to reread Mr. DeLaney's reply (too many Davids in this group
-
this difference between "AT eot" and "UNTILL eot" is just what is
causing you problems - former is a trigger, latter is a duration.
This should be the important parts of the comprehensive rules:
312. End Phase
312.1. The end phase consists of two steps: end of turn and cleanup.
313. End of Turn Step
313.1. As the end of turn step begins, all abilities that trigger "at
end of turn" go on the stack. (See rule 410, "Handling Triggered
Abilities.") Then the active player gets priority and players may play
spells and abilities.
313.2. If "at end of turn"-triggered abilities are created or if cards
with "at end of turn"-triggered abilities come into play after
preexisting ones have already gone on the stack at the beginning of
the end of turn step, those abilities won't go on the stack until the
next turn's end phase. In other words, the step doesn't "back up" so
new "at end of turn"-triggered abilities can go on the stack. This
only applies to triggered abilities that say "at end of turn." It
doesn't apply to continuous effects whose durations say "until end of
turn" or "this turn." (See rule 314, "Cleanup Step.")
314. Cleanup Step
314.1. If the active player's hand contains more cards than his or her
maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to
reduce the hand size to that number (this game action doesn't use the
stack).
314.2 Simultaneously, all damage is removed from permanents and all
"until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end (this game action
doesn't use the stack).
314.3 If the conditions for any state-based effects exist or if any
triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack, the active
player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities. Once
the stack is empty and both players pass, another cleanup step begins.
Otherwise, no player receives priority and the step ends.
In short:
"AT eot" triggers at the beginning of the end of turn step, and if any
new "AT eot" triggers are created they have to wait untill next turn.
"UNTILL eot" effects stop during the cleanup step, and if any new
"UNTILL eot" effects are created during the cleanup step (actually if
anything happens during the cleanup step), then there will be an extra
cleanup step that ends those new effects.
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
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