[SOLVED] How do I know if my AIO is empty? Improving Temperatures for PC.

[JerrWolf]

Hello everyone, I've owned this Corsair AIO CPU cooler for going on 6 or 7 years now so I contacted Corsair support and they told me that the AIO coolers tend to last 5-7 years.
I was also talking with a friend who has the same CPU as me. He told me my temps were fine, but then took back his statement when I told him that mine was cooled with an AIO (his was air cooled).

So I'm now curious, is my AIO empty and just pushing air like an overly complex air cooler?
I have an i7 4790k CPU w/ Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX 240mm as it's cooler and an 980ti GPU.


CPUID HWMonitor tells me that while under load (I have an MMO Game open) the temperatures are around 54-58c with the absolute highest I've seen at 64c; but since then I have turned off any overclocking and turbo boosts on the CPU. (it's currently at ~4000 instead of the boosted 4500.

For any possible reference, my GPU also runs about the same temps or higher with it's fans forced to be on @80-90%. (It's got that "no spin" technology but it runs hot without them lol.)

I've replaced the thermal paste on my CPU maybe 2-3 years ago at the latest with my Artic Silver 5 compound, but the compound itself was maybe 3-4 years old at that point.
Does the GPU need a replacement on thermal paste too? Is it as user friendly to apply as CPUs are? Is Artic Silver still one of "the best" brands for that?
I see Corsair has their own brand now, does anyone have any say on that?
Is there a way to easily refill the AIO myself or is that a more advance DIY technical step?
Would getting brand new fans also benefit with my temperatures issue? I know they don't lower temps, just push air, but I'd like the hot to at least not be sitting around in the corner of my room where I sit while I use the PC lol. The fans are also 5-7 years old, some came with the case some bought separate.

 

[Deleted member 1560910]

I would just replace it so you dont have a issue

 

[Crosslhs82x2]

Hi
It would help everybody to know your system specs including you case and fan setup.

Your temps to me seem to be great for the age of that unit.

Unfortunately most Aio's are non-refillable.
Would suggest getting a new cooler sooner then later.

 

[JerrWolf]

Hi
It would help everybody to know your system specs including you case and fan setup.

Your temps to me seem to be great for the age of that unit.

Unfortunately most Aio's are non-refillable.
Would suggest getting a new cooler sooner then later.

i7 4790k CPU
980ti GPU
1333hz 16gb (2x8) RAM
4 SSDs (no HDDs)
Corsair Vengeance Series C70 ATX Mid Tower Case
3 intake fans in the front (2 on the front pane, 1 on the SSD cage in front of the GPU)
3 exhaust fans, 2 on the radiator on top of the system, 1 on the rear fan slot.

I think 1 or 2 of the fans are what came with the case, the rest should be ones I bought after. All of them are 120mm fans iirc.

I expected that it wasn't going to be refillable, didn't seem to have any visible method but I was hopeful lol.

I thought I had my specs in my bio but I guess I removed them and forgot!
If you need more specs let me know.

 

[rubix_1011]

Those temps seem relatively normal, what is making you think it is no longer working?

It sounds like the temps might be only slightly elevated - this could be due to warmer ambient temps, PC needing to be cleaned of dust, etc.

Here is my thermal paste article: https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

 

[JerrWolf]

Those temps seem relatively normal, what is making you think it is no longer working?

It sounds like the temps might be only slightly elevated - this could be due to warmer ambient temps, PC needing to be cleaned of dust, etc.

Here is my thermal paste article: https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

I will check the article out thank you.

My concerns mostly stem from the fact my CPU is cooled with the water cooler, while my friends is only an air cooler, but we have the same temperatures.

Also that Corsair support said they tend to last a specific year range and mine is on the tail end of said range. I live in Florida where the outside temperature is often too hot or too humid to open the windows, and the ambient temperature of my room is usually hotter than the rest of the house, just from my PC being turned on, this is even more so an issue when I actually have the PC under heavy load like a game.

I have concerns on whether it's working or not mostly because aren't water cooled components supposed to be cooler than air cooled ones? Not the same or hotter?

In terms of dust, I tend to clean it every few months for dust, I also have dust filters which I clean as well.

 

[JerrWolf]

I took a look at the article,
I am stuck between the NT-H1 (or H2) and the Artic MX-4 which I read was good as well.

I do have a question though if anyone has tried the Corsair thermal compounds yet? Idk how long they've been out for but my local best buy has them in stock, didn't know Corsair made compounds now lol.

 

[rubix_1011]

I will check the article out thank you.

My concerns mostly stem from the fact my CPU is cooled with the water cooler, while my friends is only an air cooler, but we have the same temperatures.

Also that Corsair support said they tend to last a specific year range and mine is on the tail end of said range. I live in Florida where the outside temperature is often too hot or too humid to open the windows, and the ambient temperature of my room is usually hotter than the rest of the house, just from my PC being turned on, this is even more so an issue when I actually have the PC under heavy load like a game.

I have concerns on whether it's working or not mostly because aren't water cooled components supposed to be cooler than air cooled ones? Not the same or hotter?

In terms of dust, I tend to clean it every few months for dust, I also have dust filters which I clean as well.

So, this is an expectation that an AIO should be superior to air coolers simply because there is liquid involved.

This is not true.

This is where a large percentage of AIO buyers made the purchase they did because 1) liquid cooling and 2) RGB (in most instances). Sometimes #1 and #2 are reversed, but either way, the 'liquid cooling' part is lack of knowledge around what an AIO can do and what it cannot do.

Many good air coolers perform similar to many AIOs. Liquid cooling isn't inherently better until you get to large overclocking and faster flow rates, which AIOs also do not provide, but custom watercooling can, depending on loop design. An AIO and a good air cooler on the same CPU at normal factory clocks will be relatively similar in terms of performance.

AIO pumps are generally sourced from 1-3 different pump OEMs...that's right, nearly every AIO has the same pump as many other liquid coolers, even those from different brands. The radiators used are nearly identical in design and could likely also be sourced from a very small subset of OEMs as well. The only real difference between many of these liquid coolers is what fans are used (typically the brand name of whomever is selling the cooler, Corsair, Cooler Master, NXZT, Cougar, Gigabyte, EK, etc) and software or control of fans and pump. Underneath the plastic trim and labels exists much of the same hardware between most designs.

Also consider that an AIO as a liquid cooler functions the same as custom watercooling. It has a pump, coolant, tubing and radiator. However, an AIO as a complete cooling system usually costs a fraction as custom watercooling, and in some instances, might be the same cost as only buying a single pump or block for a custom watercooling setup. AIOs are built as cheaply as possible with mostly plastic and aluminum parts made by the lowest bidder.

 

[JerrWolf]

So, this is an expectation that an AIO should be superior to air coolers simply because there is liquid involved.

This is not true.

This is where a large percentage of AIO buyers made the purchase they did because 1) liquid cooling and 2) RGB (in most instances). Sometimes #1 and #2 are reversed, but either way, the 'liquid cooling' part is lack of knowledge around what an AIO can do and what it cannot do.

Many good air coolers perform similar to many AIOs. Liquid cooling isn't inherently better until you get to large overclocking and faster flow rates, which AIOs also do not provide, but custom watercooling can, depending on loop design. An AIO and a good air cooler on the same CPU at normal factory clocks will be relatively similar in terms of performance.

AIO pumps are generally sourced from 1-3 different pump OEMs...that's right, nearly every AIO has the same pump as many other liquid coolers, even those from different brands. The radiators used are nearly identical in design and could likely also be sourced from a very small subset of OEMs as well. The only real difference between many of these liquid coolers is what fans are used (typically the brand name of whomever is selling the cooler, Corsair, Cooler Master, NXZT, Cougar, Gigabyte, EK, etc) and software or control of fans and pump. Underneath the plastic trim and labels exists much of the same hardware between most designs.

Also consider that an AIO as a liquid cooler functions the same as custom watercooling. It has a pump, coolant, tubing and radiator. However, an AIO as a complete cooling system usually costs a fraction as custom watercooling, and in some instances, might be the same cost as only buying a single pump or block for a custom watercooling setup. AIOs are built as cheaply as possible with mostly plastic and aluminum parts made by the lowest bidder.

I see. I'm not sure if I'm reading into things wrong here but from the sounds of it AIO coolers are kind of just a marketing gimmick to cater to the uninformed? They perform at the same standard as air coolers until you go deep into overclocking, and function the same as custom water cooling but for a much cheaper cost, both in terms of retail cost and quality cost.

I'd like to OC my system to get the most out of it, but my 2 fears so to speak have been:

1. heat output, which we're currently talking about.
2. killing my CPU at a time where I can't buy a new one. (I only go to the default OC stages, which is like 4500 for this CPU. No manual tuning or pushing as much as I can)

So in that sense then I should either keep with an AIO or go for custom water cooling?

I was under the impression AIOs were for cooler temps, and quieter systems--which is why I opted in for one when I first built my system bout 5-7 years ago. Personally don't care for the RGB but it doesn't seem like it's something you can get away from in todays age lol. I do like the look of the AIO coolers in the system though, RGB or not.

I guess my main concern is if there is a method to lower my temperatures with my current components, or if I need to buy a new cooling unit, be it air or water cooled.

 

[rubix_1011]

So, several things to unpack here, I'll address in order of your response.

1. AIOs are not just gimmick, they do work, but there is a perceived assumption by people that they are some form of holy grail of cooling at a significant cost savings. Consider the saying 'sounds too good to be true'.... AIOs aren't magic and the claims the average user makes based on their purchase is likely shrouded a bit in their pride and knowing they spent $100-$200 on one. I've tested literally dozens of AIOs for Tom's Hardware and while they're decent and mostly positive reviews, there isn't anything really that special about them....nearly ALL Of them are based on the same 2 or 3 designs....nearly identical. But to also close this out, custom watercooling can cost several hundreds of dollars (or more) and may not offer a lot of improvement over a large AIO or large air cooler, or, they can offer great impact - it is all subjective to build, airflow, coolant flow and loads being dissipated. For example, my 9700k and GTX 2080 run at 45-50C at load in the same cooling loop. Depending on ambient room temp, this fluctuates up or down a bit, which all cooling does- air or liquid. (You cannot have sub-ambient liquid or air....this requires other cooling methods, regardless what your temp readings seem to be telling you.)

2a. Heat output is a direct relation of a components TDP (thermal design package/thermal design power/thermal design profile, depending on who you ask). This is the rated wattage used by the component at maximum utilization based on a given configuration, usually factory or base clock speeds. Overclocking requires more voltage to stabilize, meaning that TDP rises as a result. Setting your overclocking BIOS to AUTO often overcompensates and provides more voltage than needed, resulting in higher temperatures, but at the benefit of being 'easier'. Manually defining these settings can lead to lower temps due to lower voltages needed for a specific clock speed and stability.

2b. Killing your CPU isn't that likely to happen. Motherboards and CPUs have failsafes in place to prevent damage. They'll reset or refuse to operate if conditions aren't good enough to do so. In all honesty, the biggest threat to hardware comes in terms of shorting something out (screwdriver or other metal on motherboard or components while running) or by static or other electrical discharge. Liquid cooling leaks can be an issue and cause shorting, which AIOs are usually not known for as they are factory sealed, but leaks can happen...just rare. Custom watercooling can leak and usually is due to installer or operator error, usually where tubing or fittings connect. Just remember, when you Google search for 'Corsair cooling leaks' you are going to find them because that's exactly what you searched for, not an indicator of how common they are. The actual percentage of failures is remarkably low given the volumes of millions and millions of AIOs around the world in-use each day.

3. An AIO or custom watercooling may not actually be what you need at all - this is where understanding what YOU want to do for your build comes into play. Your CPU is a 4790k, based on your info above from a previous response. This is a CPU which was originally sold 2014-2015 or so with a TDP of 88w according to the Intel ARK site. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-4790k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html If you do not plan to overclock at all and let it run with standard factory configuration, something like a 4-6 heatpipe cooler will likely suffice for you, provided you have good case airflow. I've tested the Cooler Master Hyper 212 on the Tom's Hardware 10-core, 20-thread i9-10850k at 4.6ghz and while it wasn't happy, it did OK on this monster CPU while allowing 100% fans to be utilized. We're easily talking about 225-250w of CPU in that configuration. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cooler-master-hyper-212-evo-v2

4. AIOs are not silent. Well, they can be if you run an aggressive PWM curve on the fans to spin down at lower temps reported by CPU die readings. If you want an AIO to perform as well as it can, you either need a larger AIO (280 or 360mm) or have an AIO big enough for your CPU TDP to mitigate thermal loads with lower fan speeds. Otherwise, you have roaring fans for those temps...the price to pay.

5. Making a decision. It sounds like you are at a crossroads, but I'll give you advice if I were in the same shoes. Assuming the AIO you currently have is working: pump moving coolant, fans spinning, temps are decent....don't change any hardware. If anything, learn how to setup your AIO to be more effective at high CPU utilization and then have the fans slow down when temps and load are at idle. I personally prefer to set any liquid cooling pump to run at 100% at all times and allow radiator fans to spin up or down as needed. Liquid cooling pumps are usually very quiet in operation, so if yours makes a lot of noise and very audible up to a meter away, something else could be wrong. Otherwise, AIO noise typically comes from radiator fans. If you can setup your fan curves to adequately go up and down as needed for cooling, this can help with noise and temps as needed.

The reason I say leave the pump at 100% and only alter fan speeds via PWM curve is this:

Thermal conductivity of cooling component metals (copper or aluminum blocks/radiators) and coolants themselves as well as specific heat of water and water-based coolants allow for a large volume of thermal energy to be stored in coolant before temps raise by a single degree Celsius. (from my sticky) https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...-watercooling-sticky-v2-0.331454/post-3502926

This means that CPU temp spikes which fluctuate up and down over the course of seconds, even to minutes would try to trigger the AIO pump to ramp RPM up and down, even though the amount of wattage being output would not immediately change the temperature of the coolant itself unless it was sustained. CPU temps (reported by die temp or software) DOES NOT indicate coolant temperature, only reported core temp. Coolant temp is not quickly spiking up and down...coolant takes time to accumulate thermal loads as a result.

Radiator fans are the single, best way to dissipate additional thermal loads, provided the flow rate is consistent. Even with pump speeds ramping up and down, cooling still depends on fans and radiator dissipation as a limiting factor of overall cooling capacity. Liquid cooling systems (AIOs or custom watercooling) still abide by the same sets of rules which is often considered a product of multiple different things: coolant flow rate (based on pump speed and head pressure), radiator surface area, radiator airflow restriction, fan airflow and the thermal properties of both coolant and the metal components (blocks, radiators). Lower any one of these and you MUST increase another in order to achieve the same level of performance. Ex: lowering fan speed to make a cooling system quieter likely means keeping the pump and flow rate consistent but adding an extra radiator or extra set of fans for push+pull airflow.

 

[Crosslhs82x2]

Rubix_1011
Just Know If We Were To Ever Meet
All Rounds Are On Me!!!!!!!!

 

[rubix_1011]

Thanks, good to know, but highly unlikely. However, you should go around asking everyone you meet in public if it is me, just to be sure.

(kidding...) Although, that would be hilarious. If you aren't in Kansas or Missouri, it probably isn't me, unless I'm travelling for work, then it's anyone's guess as to where I am.

My point being, with the OP's thread, a good, budget-to-mid-priced air cooler would suffice, but better yet, if the AIO is working just fine, do not change anything other than the settings managing the fans and pump.

Learning now to control curves based on loads and temps is a great way to understand how a system performs and operates and gives the end-user full control over their cooling. Once you know how to adjust based on your preferences, you can setup fans and cooling exactly how you wish to have it perform without relying on preset values in motherboard BIOS or from software controls like Corsair's iCue 'balanced' or 'silent' modes.

 

[JerrWolf]

So, several things to unpack here, I'll address in order of your response.

1. AIOs are not just gimmick, they do work, but there is a perceived assumption by people that they are some form of holy grail of cooling at a significant cost savings. Consider the saying 'sounds too good to be true'.... AIOs aren't magic and the claims the average user makes based on their purchase is likely shrouded a bit in their pride and knowing they spent $100-$200 on one. I've tested literally dozens of AIOs for Tom's Hardware and while they're decent and mostly positive reviews, there isn't anything really that special about them....nearly ALL Of them are based on the same 2 or 3 designs....nearly identical. But to also close this out, custom watercooling can cost several hundreds of dollars (or more) and may not offer a lot of improvement over a large AIO or large air cooler, or, they can offer great impact - it is all subjective to build, airflow, coolant flow and loads being dissipated. For example, my 9700k and GTX 2080 run at 45-50C at load in the same cooling loop. Depending on ambient room temp, this fluctuates up or down a bit, which all cooling does- air or liquid. (You cannot have sub-ambient liquid or air....this requires other cooling methods, regardless what your temp readings seem to be telling you.)

2a. Heat output is a direct relation of a components TDP (thermal design package/thermal design power/thermal design profile, depending on who you ask). This is the rated wattage used by the component at maximum utilization based on a given configuration, usually factory or base clock speeds. Overclocking requires more voltage to stabilize, meaning that TDP rises as a result. Setting your overclocking BIOS to AUTO often overcompensates and provides more voltage than needed, resulting in higher temperatures, but at the benefit of being 'easier'. Manually defining these settings can lead to lower temps due to lower voltages needed for a specific clock speed and stability.

2b. Killing your CPU isn't that likely to happen. Motherboards and CPUs have failsafes in place to prevent damage. They'll reset or refuse to operate if conditions aren't good enough to do so. In all honesty, the biggest threat to hardware comes in terms of shorting something out (screwdriver or other metal on motherboard or components while running) or by static or other electrical discharge. Liquid cooling leaks can be an issue and cause shorting, which AIOs are usually not known for as they are factory sealed, but leaks can happen...just rare. Custom watercooling can leak and usually is due to installer or operator error, usually where tubing or fittings connect. Just remember, when you Google search for 'Corsair cooling leaks' you are going to find them because that's exactly what you searched for, not an indicator of how common they are. The actual percentage of failures is remarkably low given the volumes of millions and millions of AIOs around the world in-use each day.

3. An AIO or custom watercooling may not actually be what you need at all - this is where understanding what YOU want to do for your build comes into play. Your CPU is a 4790k, based on your info above from a previous response. This is a CPU which was originally sold 2014-2015 or so with a TDP of 88w according to the Intel ARK site. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-4790k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html If you do not plan to overclock at all and let it run with standard factory configuration, something like a 4-6 heatpipe cooler will likely suffice for you, provided you have good case airflow. I've tested the Cooler Master Hyper 212 on the Tom's Hardware 10-core, 20-thread i9-10850k at 4.6ghz and while it wasn't happy, it did OK on this monster CPU while allowing 100% fans to be utilized. We're easily talking about 225-250w of CPU in that configuration. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cooler-master-hyper-212-evo-v2

4. AIOs are not silent. Well, they can be if you run an aggressive PWM curve on the fans to spin down at lower temps reported by CPU die readings. If you want an AIO to perform as well as it can, you either need a larger AIO (280 or 360mm) or have an AIO big enough for your CPU TDP to mitigate thermal loads with lower fan speeds. Otherwise, you have roaring fans for those temps...the price to pay.

5. Making a decision. It sounds like you are at a crossroads, but I'll give you advice if I were in the same shoes. Assuming the AIO you currently have is working: pump moving coolant, fans spinning, temps are decent....don't change any hardware. If anything, learn how to setup your AIO to be more effective at high CPU utilization and then have the fans slow down when temps and load are at idle. I personally prefer to set any liquid cooling pump to run at 100% at all times and allow radiator fans to spin up or down as needed. Liquid cooling pumps are usually very quiet in operation, so if yours makes a lot of noise and very audible up to a meter away, something else could be wrong. Otherwise, AIO noise typically comes from radiator fans. If you can setup your fan curves to adequately go up and down as needed for cooling, this can help with noise and temps as needed.

The reason I say leave the pump at 100% and only alter fan speeds via PWM curve is this:

Thermal conductivity of cooling component metals (copper or aluminum blocks/radiators) and coolants themselves as well as specific heat of water and water-based coolants allow for a large volume of thermal energy to be stored in coolant before temps raise by a single degree Celsius. (from my sticky) https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...-watercooling-sticky-v2-0.331454/post-3502926

This means that CPU temp spikes which fluctuate up and down over the course of seconds, even to minutes would try to trigger the AIO pump to ramp RPM up and down, even though the amount of wattage being output would not immediately change the temperature of the coolant itself unless it was sustained. CPU temps (reported by die temp or software) DOES NOT indicate coolant temperature, only reported core temp. Coolant temp is not quickly spiking up and down...coolant takes time to accumulate thermal loads as a result.

Radiator fans are the single, best way to dissipate additional thermal loads, provided the flow rate is consistent. Even with pump speeds ramping up and down, cooling still depends on fans and radiator dissipation as a limiting factor of overall cooling capacity. Liquid cooling systems (AIOs or custom watercooling) still abide by the same sets of rules which is often considered a product of multiple different things: coolant flow rate (based on pump speed and head pressure), radiator surface area, radiator airflow restriction, fan airflow and the thermal properties of both coolant and the metal components (blocks, radiators). Lower any one of these and you MUST increase another in order to achieve the same level of performance. Ex: lowering fan speed to make a cooling system quieter likely means keeping the pump and flow rate consistent but adding an extra radiator or extra set of fans for push+pull airflow.

A lot of info to take in, but thank you for it regardless.

1. I see, that clears up a bit more for me thank you. So given that my room is always around 70f at the coolest and ~85f or higher at it's hottest, I can assume the PC's ambient temp won't drop below that either? That's fine for me, my biggest issue is how it's pumping out nearly double the temperature. the highest I've seen is 145f and the average is around 120-130f. If that's something a new water/air cooler can solve then I guess that's the solution I need to go. I take it that simply putting new thermal compound won't make a night and day difference? For reference my PC has been on for a few hours now, with only a browser and Discord open, the CPU is dancing around 40-45c and GPU 45-50c according to HWMonitor.
As I said earlier (I hope) I've applied some Artic Silver 5 to it about 2-3 years ago or so, but the compound itself was already 3-4 years old at that point. To my understanding thermal compound does not simply last forever, so I'll probably want to buy more, regardless of which cooler I get.

2a. I see, I've removed the Overclock and XMP profile that my motherboard provides; since then I have not seen my system go into the 63c/145f range as frequently. Personally I'd like to get the most I can get out of the system, especially considering it's age, but not at the cost of sweating to death lol.

2b. I see, that was one of my main concerns that having it overclocked (based on automated settings) would either kill it in the long run or make me need to buy a new one sooner--due to it's age; as you mentioned it is from 2014/2015. So as long as I don't got any loose screws or other metal bits flying around hitting what they shouldn't, and don't do any unstable overclocking--my only concern would be the heat generation (from higher TDP) and needing to undo the OC if needed?

3. I'll take a look into it, but if I can get the temperatures under control I would like to push the system above factory settings.

4. So when looking into AIOs, I'd want larger fans (mine is dual 120mm) or a larger AIO? Larger in the sense of it fitting 3+ fans, or larger in the sense of a thicker radiator (or both)? Sadly I don't think my case has room for it to fit a 3-fan radiator, Nor do I think I have the clearance to do a Push+Pull configuration with 4 fans. According to the case tech-specs I should be fine with a larger radiator.

Radiator Compatibility:120mm; 140mm; 240mm; 280mm
Compatible Corsair Liquid Coolers: H55, H60, H75, H80i, H90, H100i, H105, H110

While having a quiet computer would be nice, it's not a necessity for me, I wear headphones and can't hear it anyway. So if I can lower the temps and it's loud(er) then so be it--I'll consider it a win.

5. Well my initial concern and reasoning was IS the AIO working? Or is it just an air cooler at the moment? If temperatures are nothing to go by without further details, how can I check IF it's still working as it should, and not on it's last leg? Corsair Support told me they tend to last 5-6 years--mine is 6-7 years old. If a radiator's fluids completely evaporate does it just push air or does the motherboard have a failsafe for that as well? The fans do move, and it does cool the CPU, but I don't know if it's doing it well enough to warrant still using it or not well enough to suggest buying a new one.


And as a new question, would buying all new fans be a worthy consideration moving forward as well? In terms of case design, I can have 8 case fans (4 front, 1 bottom, 1 back, 2 side panel) as well as the 2 or 4 for the radiator on the top. I don't think I can put the AIO on the front like you see in some cases, my case has removable drive bays for the SSD/HDDs and also drive bays for stuff like BD players, and my fan controller (I needed because I couldn't find a way to get the front fans to plug into the motherboard). Even removed, if the radiator could even reach; it would be lower than the pump which I was told is less than ideal.

Once more my current fan placement is as follows;
2 fans in the front. (either both bought or 1 default 1 bought)
1 fan on the SSD bay; all 3 pushing air into the case. (I think one is default and one I bought)
1 fan on the back as exhaust. (one that I bought)
2 fans on the top pushing air through the radiator. (default fans)

All fans are 120mm I'm fairly certain, the ones I bought after are thinner bladed fans (I think Corsair markets them as AF) and the default ones I believe are thicker blades (marketed as SP)

 

[rubix_1011]

In terms of PC temps, Celsius is always preferred, so for everyone wondering the conversions:

70 F = 21.1 C
85 F = 29.4 C
120 F = 48.9 C
130 F = 54.4 C

(Google has a lot of conversion calculators, FYI, so does your normal Windows desktop calculator)

Thermal paste isn't magic either, so if there aren't really any temp issues (and there do not seem to be), don't mess with it. Also: https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

Long story short, just use thermal paste, it won't make a huge difference, just make sure you use it. The differences in temps are within 1-2 C in nearly all tests.

For reference my PC has been on for a few hours now, with only a browser and Discord open, the CPU is dancing around 40-45c and GPU 45-50c according to HWMonitor.

Not terrible, assuming this is pretty much idle, but browsers can use more CPU and memory than you'd think, depending on how many tabs open and active pages. Is this back to factory settings? Still seems a bit higher than I would expect for mostly idle. Do you have fans in all the existing fan locations? I am assuming the AIO is mounted in the top? Also, it would seem a 280mm AIO is the largest you can go without modification.

I want to clarify - an AIO cannot simply be 'just an air cooler' if it fails or is emptied of coolant. If there is not any coolant flowing, the CPU gets hot and there is not any method to dissipate heat. Essentially all you have is that 2" x 2" copper piece of the AIO block soaking heat and once that is hot (within a few seconds) you reach thermal max. The heat cannot go anywhere. The fans on the AIO radiator are not doing anything at this point except moving air through a radiator which is not carrying heat. Your PC would overheat and go into thermal throttling.

Buying new fans might help, but are you meaning case fans or radiator fans? Unless the fans on the AIO no longer move air or are making really strange noises like bearing failure would indicate, having good airflow in your case can make a huge difference. How can you tell if you need a new cooler or better airflow in your case? See below, at the bottom for my copy/paste on 'how to test...'

But, you could also add the 2 fans on the side panel to either pull air out or push cool air in, either would work, although again, depending on your findings from below.

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Cooler Troubleshooting and Questions


High CPU and GPU temperatures:

This could be caused by a few different things, please don't automatically assume 'the cooler is not working' without also checking if the case airflow is sufficient.

Remove the side panel of the PC case. Orient a house fan (desk or box style fan) to blow air into the case, directly over components at the highest setting.

This will represent a case with the best possible airflow possible. For reference, the fans I am providing as examples would look like the items below (just to clarify for anyone who might want reference)

Re-test as you have normally done - play games, run benchmarks, etc. to get to where temperatures were normally seen to be higher than they should. Normal room temperature is usually between 20-24C or 68-75F. Please note that every air or liquid cooler operates as a product of delta-T over ambient, meaning that if the PC is operational (simply turned on), it is impossible for the CPU to display a temperature below ambient room temperatures. If it is, this is likely a bug in software temperature reporting either from the desktop UI or the BIOS reading it incorrectly.

With the fan running at full speed, if temperatures drop by 5-7C or more, case airflow is one major issue to contend with. You will need additional fans or better fans for your setup in order to optimize air in and out of the chassis. This might even require consideration for a new PC case or leaving the side panel partially open during sessions of heavier computing until these items are corrected.

If your temperatures remain relatively the same (difference less than 1-2C), then you likely have an issue with the cooler in question (if CPU is hot, CPU cooler, if GPU is hot, GPU cooler). It would be good to then approach the next steps by thoroughly cleaning the cooler with compressed or canned air and ensuring there are not large blockages in cooling fins or on fans, etc. This might require the cooling fans to be removed from the heatsink or radiator to ensure there is not a buildup of pet hair, dust or even carpet fibers which can trap additional debris. Please ensure the PC is turned off and unplugged during this process to prevent unwanted startup to keep fingers safe from fan blades or accidental shorting if you happen to drop a screw onto other components during fan removal.

Removal of the cooler and re-application of thermal paste & re-seating the cooler can also be beneficial once cleaning of the cooler is ruled out by retesting the steps above.

 

[JerrWolf]

In terms of PC temps, Celsius is always preferred, so for everyone wondering the conversions:

70 F = 21.1 C
85 F = 29.4 C
120 F = 48.9 C
130 F = 54.4 C

(Google has a lot of conversion calculators, FYI, so does your normal Windows desktop calculator)

Thermal paste isn't magic either, so if there aren't really any temp issues (and there do not seem to be), don't mess with it. Also: https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

Long story short, just use thermal paste, it won't make a huge difference, just make sure you use it. The differences in temps are within 1-2 C in nearly all tests.



Not terrible, assuming this is pretty much idle, but browsers can use more CPU and memory than you'd think, depending on how many tabs open and active pages. Is this back to factory settings? Still seems a bit higher than I would expect for mostly idle. Do you have fans in all the existing fan locations? I am assuming the AIO is mounted in the top? Also, it would seem a 280mm AIO is the largest you can go without modification.

I want to clarify - an AIO cannot simply be 'just an air cooler' if it fails or is emptied of coolant. If there is not any coolant flowing, the CPU gets hot and there is not any method to dissipate heat. Essentially all you have is that 2" x 2" copper piece of the AIO block soaking heat and once that is hot (within a few seconds) you reach thermal max. The heat cannot go anywhere. The fans on the AIO radiator are not doing anything at this point except moving air through a radiator which is not carrying heat. Your PC would overheat and go into thermal throttling.

Buying new fans might help, but are you meaning case fans or radiator fans? Unless the fans on the AIO no longer move air or are making really strange noises like bearing failure would indicate, having good airflow in your case can make a huge difference. How can you tell if you need a new cooler or better airflow in your case? See below, at the bottom for my copy/paste on 'how to test...'

But, you could also add the 2 fans on the side panel to either pull air out or push cool air in, either would work, although again, depending on your findings from below.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cooler Troubleshooting and Questions


High CPU and GPU temperatures:

This could be caused by a few different things, please don't automatically assume 'the cooler is not working' without also checking if the case airflow is sufficient.

Remove the side panel of the PC case. Orient a house fan (desk or box style fan) to blow air into the case, directly over components at the highest setting.

This will represent a case with the best possible airflow possible. For reference, the fans I am providing as examples would look like the items below (just to clarify for anyone who might want reference)

Re-test as you have normally done - play games, run benchmarks, etc. to get to where temperatures were normally seen to be higher than they should. Normal room temperature is usually between 20-24C or 68-75F. Please note that every air or liquid cooler operates as a product of delta-T over ambient, meaning that if the PC is operational (simply turned on), it is impossible for the CPU to display a temperature below ambient room temperatures. If it is, this is likely a bug in software temperature reporting either from the desktop UI or the BIOS reading it incorrectly.

With the fan running at full speed, if temperatures drop by 5-7C or more, case airflow is one major issue to contend with. You will need additional fans or better fans for your setup in order to optimize air in and out of the chassis. This might even require consideration for a new PC case or leaving the side panel partially open during sessions of heavier computing until these items are corrected.

If your temperatures remain relatively the same (difference less than 1-2C), then you likely have an issue with the cooler in question (if CPU is hot, CPU cooler, if GPU is hot, GPU cooler). It would be good to then approach the next steps by thoroughly cleaning the cooler with compressed or canned air and ensuring there are not large blockages in cooling fins or on fans, etc. This might require the cooling fans to be removed from the heatsink or radiator to ensure there is not a buildup of pet hair, dust or even carpet fibers which can trap additional debris. Please ensure the PC is turned off and unplugged during this process to prevent unwanted startup to keep fingers safe from fan blades or accidental shorting if you happen to drop a screw onto other components during fan removal.

Removal of the cooler and re-application of thermal paste & re-seating the cooler can also be beneficial once cleaning of the cooler is ruled out by retesting the steps above.

So I had a desk fan, probably about half the size of the standing fan you posted an image of (image 2) usually placed somewhere in my room to help circulate air, but recently I put it in front of my PC on the floor.

Disclaimer: While it's on the floor, I have the case on 2 wood planks elevated off of my plastic office chair mat. So it's not on carpet don't worry. I only took it off my desk to save space and preferably stop the hot air blowing right next to me.

I took the side panel off, took a look at my temps with or without the fan blowing, and no stress outside of the browser being open with Youtube.
Roughly 44-47c like normal.
With the game running but still not doing too much (just in a congested area, I play MMOs) it was around 49-53c.
With the game actually doing stuff (I went into a raid) without the fan was still around 49-55c but looked like it peaked around 56c or so.

With the fan on, I did not see to much of a difference, it was still in the 49-56c range, but usually stayed around 51-53c instead of the 54-56c range.
I don't think I'd say there was really much of a difference as both cases the temperature would jump between 49/50c and 55/56c.

Noticeable differences I'd argue was that the exhaust of the PC was not warm with the fan on, and I obviously felt a consistent pressure leaving the case.
Without the fan, it felt like the room temperature, but would slowly heat up.

One thing I've noticed is compared to the exhaust fans, my intake fans do not seem to push in as much air as the exhaust let out. Is this normal?
I put my hand between the GPU and my case fan and honestly couldn't tell if it was even spinning (it is I checked).
For my front case fans, I can tell there is airflow, but I'd believe it if there weren't even there in the first place (both of them are spinning).

I'd place my hand on the top vent by the radiator and it would feel warm-ish without the fan, and cool-ish with the fan on. The north and south of the radiator was warmer (through the vent) with the fan off than with it on.

Edit: forgot to reply to the rest! whoops.

For the fan replacement I was referring to all the fans, case and rad. As they're all old and I've already had to yank out 2 fans for dying on me.
All my readings right now will be with the CPU running without Turbo or OC settings enabled, 4.0 speed (3.99 according to task manager).
I have fans in 4 places in the case and 2 on the rad, I've had to take out the 4th front fan, and couldn't really get the bottom fan to sit in the case right. The AIO is on the top of my case, yes.
So if the AIO becomes empty the CPU would thermal throttle and refuse to operate for long before turning itself off? Well I have not had that issue yet so I guess there is still some fluid in the AIO.

 

[rubix_1011]

AIOs have coolant in them and they shouldn't leak or lose coolant, although there are varying degrees of discussion around how much coolant loss occurs by evaporation through the tubing itself. Some AIOs have specially designed tubing liners (making them more 'stiff') but this can cracked easily as it should not be bent into small radius bends. If the tubing is very flexible, there is likelihood that this liner is not present, but could also be a different sort of liner.

 

[JerrWolf]

AIOs have coolant in them and they shouldn't leak or lose coolant, although there are varying degrees of discussion around how much coolant loss occurs by evaporation through the tubing itself. Some AIOs have specially designed tubing liners (making them more 'stiff') but this can cracked easily as it should not be bent into small radius bends. If the tubing is very flexible, there is likelihood that this liner is not present, but could also be a different sort of liner.

I see, the tubes are what I'd consider semi-flexible, I can bend them but there is certainly resistance if I try to bend it a specific way.

"Over time, they will lose liquid due to permeation, and it could be why you are noticing a rise in your CPU temperature."
Is what the support rep said to me from Corsair, which was one of the main things that raised a flag for me.

So I guess we came to a conclusion that the temps in my PC are fine, just a mix of ambient room temps, and the exhaust being relatively close to me cause my concern over the temps.
My room with the PC is the hottest room in the house, even though we have central air--if feels like my room is outside compared to the rest of the house lol.

I take it considering the temps are "fine" if I were to buy another AIO or a very good air cooler, the temps would not lower to a point where it'd make a large difference? (like 35-45c under load, instead of 49-63c)

 

[geofelt]

rubix_1011 has provided a lot of good info and advice. Well done.

AIO coolers do not last forever. Not so much for loss of coolant but for admission of air into the system.
This air comes in through the coolant tubes over time.
Air bubbles can start to reduce the efficiency of the pump and will eventually require aio replacement.
So long as the aio is performing, no need to change it out.
If you suspect it is going(noises in the pump) then it is time to pre-emptively change out the cooler.
Air cools equally well, is more reliable, costs less, and will never leak.

 

[JerrWolf]

rubix_1011 has provided a lot of good info and advice. Well done.

AIO coolers do not last forever. Not so much for loss of coolant but for admission of air into the system.
This air comes in through the coolant tubes over time.
Air bubbles can start to reduce the efficiency of the pump and will eventually require aio replacement.
So long as the aio is performing, no need to change it out.
If you suspect it is going(noises in the pump) then it is time to pre-emptively change out the cooler.
Air cools equally well, is more reliable, costs less, and will never leak.

What noise exactly would I be listening for? And how noticeable would it be with the fans and everything going in the system?

 

[rubix_1011]

Anything but a steady, low hum with some very quiet liquid flowing sounds, would be suspect.

Bubbling sounds with or without some gurgling can indicate an airlock in the AIO, meaning there is air being churned by the pump, not just coolant. AIO pumps cannot pump air, they can only pump coolant (they are not powerful enough to really displace air and get to coolant).

 

[JerrWolf]

Anything but a steady, low hum with some very quiet liquid flowing sounds, would be suspect.

Bubbling sounds with or without some gurgling can indicate an airlock in the AIO, meaning there is air being churned by the pump, not just coolant. AIO pumps cannot pump air, they can only pump coolant (they are not powerful enough to really displace air and get to coolant).

I can't say I hear any gurgling or bubbling sounds.
I suppose I would say it does sound like it has a low hum "more like it's just going Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" but changing in pitch.

While sticking my head near my open case, I did notice that the fans besides my exhaust fans, barely have any blow to them.
I put my hand between the fan by the GPU and did not really feel anything, and then put a piece of paper towel flush against the fan and it wasn't pushing the paper towel at all.
The fans in the front (through the case) didn't have any suction to them either on the paper towel.
Is this normal? I did that fan test and the temps didn't really change, I'd argue fans are a cheaper alternative but tbh with them ranging from 40-80$ for a 3 pack that's nearly the same cost as an AIO cooler lol.

 

[geofelt]

Some thoughts:
A hum is what you should hear.
But changing in pitch indicates that the pump is not plugged into a pump header which should run it at 100% all the time.
Your motherboard fan control can set that fan header to 100%.

Run an app like HWinfo64.
It will give you the rpm of all of your fans.
I would expect to see something like 1000 rpm.

The dangling tissue test is to ascertain the direction of airflow, not so much it's strength.

 

[JerrWolf]

Some thoughts:
A hum is what you should hear.
But changing in pitch indicates that the pump is not plugged into a pump header which should run it at 100% all the time.
Your motherboard fan control can set that fan header to 100%.

Run an app like HWinfo64.
It will give you the rpm of all of your fans.
I would expect to see something like 1000 rpm.

The dangling tissue test is to ascertain the direction of airflow, not so much it's strength.

Installed HWinfo64, didn't see any mention of fans.
I installed Corsair Link (my AIO is too old to be supported by their new software) and it was blinking red for the CPU pump; which google said the issue is the pump isn't plugged in to the right spot.

I shut down my PC took all the fans, and components besides the CPU out.
I did check the AIO I do hear fluid in there, like if I was shaking a half-full covered cup.
Cleaned it all up put it back together (also realised my AIO can't be installed on the front)
rewired all the cables, hooked up all my fans to the mobo (instead of an external fan controller which never seemed to work anyway).

I've now gone into the bios and set them all to PWM and full speed.
Corsair Link says the pump fan speed is 1440, in Performance mode, it has a few other options, but to be honest, I do not see any difference. Not entirely sure this software actually works lol.

My temps don't really seemed to have changed.
I'm idle with this single tab open and I'm around ~41-55c, with a fan blowing air into the case from the front.

 

[geofelt]

Installed HWinfo64, didn't see any mention of fans.
I installed Corsair Link (my AIO is too old to be supported by their new software) and it was blinking red for the CPU pump; which google said the issue is the pump isn't plugged in to the right spot.

I shut down my PC took all the fans, and components besides the CPU out.
I did check the AIO I do hear fluid in there, like if I was shaking a half-full covered cup.
Cleaned it all up put it back together (also realised my AIO can't be installed on the front)
rewired all the cables, hooked up all my fans to the mobo (instead of an external fan controller which never seemed to work anyway).

I've now gone into the bios and set them all to PWM and full speed.
Corsair Link says the pump fan speed is 1440, in Performance mode, it has a few other options, but to be honest, I do not see any difference. Not entirely sure this software actually works lol.

My temps don't really seemed to have changed.
I'm idle with this single tab open and I'm around ~41-55c, with a fan blowing air into the case from the front.

On hwinfo64, you need to select sensors.
You will find the various fan speeds under the motherboard section.

The only bad installation setup is to have the cpu and pump mounted at the highest point in the system.
Putting the radiator on the bottom, for instance.
If there is any air in the system, it will collect in the pump, making the pump ineffective.

If you have any apps open, that is not idling.
Enter your bios and look at what temperature the bios displays.

Or, after booting to windows and before starting anything except hwinfo should get you idle temperatures.

 

[Crosslhs82x2]

Hi
Sorry for the late response.

There may not be any noise at all.

My wife's H100iv2 a little over 4yrs old and always top mounted on a Amd 2600x didn't give me any indication in a noise that the unit was failing other then the fans ramping up on simple tasks.
I had noticed 1 day that her cooler was running a little warm for just web browsing.

So I begain investigating to confirm.
There was No abnormal niose.
Pump speed normal
Fans normal at idle but ramped on simple tasks.
Using hwinfo64 her temps at idle where near normally where they always ran 26c to 29c depending on the rooms ambient temp until I started having it do something,
Say web browsing or just opening/closing out programs then the temps would take a pretty big jump compared to what it was doing, they were indeed higher then normal.
So next was run Unigene Heaven temp shot up high very quickly.
Then I did a Aida64 Fpu test and the temps went to 81c in less then 1.5 mins into the test.
Ok somethings wrong what?
I uninstalled Corsair Link4 and reinstalled with no change.

Next was a good fan, rad cleaning, repaste, system cleaning.
With no change.

Seeing how it was still under warranty, I contacted Corsair Support and upon telling them what it was doing, what I had done to correct the issue, then told them that it hit 81c in less then 1.5 mins on Aida64 Fpu test they didn't waste anymore time in starting the Rma process.
So there was No real noise made from this unit failing.

Luckily I bought a Arctic esports 34 duo months pryor thinking my H110i older then hers would go out first but was replaced by me wanting to upgrade knowing it WOULD eventually go itself.

So with the Arctic 34 now in place the temps doing the Aida64 Fpu test topped out after 15 mins running @74c
With a fan curve in bios set @
40c-45%
60c-65%
75c-80%
And it's Very Quiet!!!!!

This is my first aftermarket Air cooler
And with that kind of results It won't be my last.!!!!!!!

So the planning ahead and having a cooler On Hand ready for Installtion when it finally goes will get you backup and running quicker then waiting on delivery or stores to open.