Update on 4890...

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Just look at the majority of games youve listed. Most are within 13% range

 

[L1qu1d]

will it turn over the 64% gain from dead space?

Lets add mirror's edge, lets add world in conflict, lets add bioshock, unreal tournament....we can keep going....

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

My link shows 280 10% faster in WiC, but losing in bioshock, and yes, its all around, not including or leaving out, 13%

 

[jennyh]

What about Age of Conan or Assassins Creed?

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415&p=1

The 280 couldn't even beat the 4870 1 gb when it was newly released with version 8 catalyst.

All I'm trying to say is, at 30% faster than the 4870 the 4890 is going to be faster than the gtx285. Not by much, but it will be faster and cheaper as it should be.

 

[L1qu1d]

Like I said, different websites, different results. Your link was dec 2nd, not with updated Nvidia drivers.

Anywho, I think I'm done boiling the red blood

I had my fun

I'll let it sink in

Oh yes, enemry territory, Ghost recon 2, Cryostasis, gears of war....

anywho

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If you choose to boil blood , thats fine heheh. But getting real here, thats important. The 216 and the 4870 1gig are close, or the same. So, if this is thecase , and its 20% better for the 280 over the 4870, its also 20% over the 216, using your logic. Unfortunately, there isnt 20% difference in HW between a 216 and a 280. Hmmmm, its more like 15%, plus, nothing scales 100%, and wadda ya know? Its like 13%!!!! Shazam, I figgerrd it out maw

 

[jennyh]

Nobody is saying that the 1gb 4870 is faster than the gtx280...

It beats it in some games, which is amazing enough. At 30% faster the 4890 will beat it and the gtx285 in single card benchmarks, and completely own them both in crossfire.

We won't have long to wait to see the proof, thankfully.

 

[L1qu1d]

Where is this 30% coming from for the 4890? Honestly these numbers are really out of asses

13 % can't be taken from the 216 Jaydee you should know that, seeing as Mirror's edge plays 11 fps on the 4870 and 40+ on the 260 GTX...you can't compare em.

Majority of games are built for Nvidia, use PhysX...so You can't compare.

ANd yes ppl can say well lets not use PhysX to compare, well thats max settings:0

jennyh, 4890 30%? so the 4890 is basically faster than the 4870 as the 4870 X2 is compared to the 280 GTX?
No, i'm sorry specs don't match even with 150 mhz overclock.


Anyways work 2mororw, and RE5 is getting me angry good nite.

 

[jennyh]

I wouldn't even say the 280 is 13% 'faster' jaydee. What the 280 does is stick around and not lose performance in some games. It just keeps churning out great benchmarks where the 4870 struggles with certain games, but the fact that the 4870 is faster in a few games tells it's own story.

The 4870 is already better technology than the gtx280, it's just a case of ironing out the flaws that make it lose performance. The 4890 should put out Grid-like benchmarks in every game otherwise it's been a waste of time releasing it.

 

[jennyh]

jennyh, 4890 30%? so the 4890 is basically faster than the 4870 as the 4870 X2 is compared to the 280 GTX?
No, i'm sorry specs don't match even with 150 mhz overclock.


Anyways work 2mororw, and RE5 is getting me angry good nite.

Everything I've read has said 20% at least.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

This reminds me of people not believing the 4850 was as fast as the 8800gtx. Im going apples to apples, showing that originally the 4870 was 6% faster than the 260. Thats why we even have a 216. Then the 1gig 4870 came along, and took care of that. No clock speed increases, no other optimizations, just added ram.
Back to apple to apple, the 216 is only 24 shy of the 240 on the 280, thats 15%. Now, wheres this 20%? Once you go from a 216 to the 4870 1 gig? You automaticaally lose 6-7%?
OK, so, I think within reason, weve shown that the 4870 1 gig is = to the 216, which has 15% less available HW than the 280. As said earlier, it doesnt scale 100%, so, conclusion is 13% more in the 280, or, also, the 4870 1gig, which, as Ive already said, hasnt received 1 change to it, other than more ram.
Now, add faster ram, higher clocks, as per my earlier link of 950+, and youll see its quite possible for the 4890 to best the 285, and as jennyh has pointed out , itd make NO sense in it being just a lil faster, and not compete with the next higher card of its competition. The ONLY argument to that would be, if ATI projects the next series (5xxx) wont be fast enough to reconsider a newer purchase at the high end, which is possible, but probable?

 

[L1qu1d]

Like I said, this is falling on death ears. No concrete evidence, and specs keep changing.
Like I said, the 100 mhz brings 13% to the table so add that to the 4890, then you've got it matching the 280 GTX, (according to your 13% rule, I say 20% but we'll use urs).

So 13% = 280 GTX

285 GTX = 280 GTX + 10%

and IMO, its already reaching its max clock on air.

But lets leave this argument to april 09.

Right now its basically ATI supporters vs Nvidia supporters vs people that just want to argue possibilities. (fingers not pointed)

I really don't see 950 stock mhz I really don't.

 

[jennyh]

The new revision has a higher voltage so thats how the clock is being increased. I don't see it getting to 950 mhz stock either though.

It could also be that ATI just want the fastest card back, and even if a single 4890 isnt faster than a gtx285, a 4890 X2 will probably be faster than a 295.

 

[L1qu1d]

well the speed of 285 GTX isn't the thing that looks appealing, its the price starting at 299$

Yes I kno that the voltage is increased (to acheive the clock, not actually sure if the card itself is though), but with increased voltage = alot more heat, which has been ATI's problem.

My X2 use to do 65 idle and 89 load in source, even more in crysis (never played that game).

The only thing is this card is bringing to the table what we've seen in the 280 GTX since june, just like the 295 GTX brought what we're basically seen from the 4870 X2.

It just doesn't impress ppl in terms of power, so what they can go on is price.

I.E

4850, its a card thats a little stronger than the 8800 GTX, and yet look a its price, 150$ (going to average I've seen it at). 8800 GTX was still 400$ in some stores past summer.


4890 is the new 4850 of the high end. We'll see 280 GTX (give or take), for much cheaper than what the 280 GTX was sold for.

Ati needs to release those reliable drivers though, their X2 cards need somework, and theres alot of potential left in improving min frame rates. Technically both companies do, but ATI seems to be plaguing alot fo reviews and users.

Remember for some reason ATI's X2 cards don't work like x's 2 card (2 physical cards). So even if the 4890 comes out ontop of a 275 GTX (single 295 GTX gpu), it might not perform to its standards.

But if the card does match the 280, or is around the power of, then theres a good chance it will be beating the 295 GTX, whats important is the price, and whether the card is coming....it better though

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I'll just add this. It all comes down to power usage, not just temps. If it uses the same amount of power, the temps wont matter. Thats up to the HSF et al to disperse that heat. Also, if they do use TSMCs better or faster process, they will achieve much higher clocks. Add in a few tweaks, again, its very possible. I bring up 950 due to the original rumor and TPUs article. If this does all come together, itll win out.
Now, whether therell ever be a x2 of this, who knows? Its reaching those thermal barriers that prevented the 295 til now, and from what Ive seen, theres alot of them failing. Maybe its thermals, not sure, but alot of failures with that card. A x2 4890 is a exspensive card, needing those drivers as well. Maybe a partner like Sapphire which also brought the 4850x2 may try it, otherwise, Im thinking there wont be one

 

[L1qu1d]

^Bingo, very well said.

 

[cyber_jockey]

Agrees . No need for a 4890x2 the 4870x2 is enough and with the gtx295 shortages its really not worth taking the risk seeing drivers will be a problem .

 

[cyber_jockey]

Agrees . No need for a 4890x2 the 4870x2 is enough and with the gtx295 shortages its really not worth taking the risk seeing drivers will be a problem .

 

[spathotan]

I just dont understand why Nvidia would make a GTX 275 if they didnt feel the 4890 was going to fall between the GTX 260 and 280. I mean there is only $100 seperating the 260 and 280, its not that big a void to go out and waste time making a "new" card to fill it. Simple price adjusting of the GTX 280 can solve that.

 

[4745454b]

Unless doing the price adjustment means you ( or the AIB partners) are taking a loss for every card they sell.

I don't like the latest link. If its just a clock speed increase, the card won't really be worth it. Bumping up the core/shaders 100/150MHz isn't going to do that much, more so if you consider that you can buy overclocked 4870s right now. I'm almost wondering right now if this is simply a way to clear out inventory so when the 5870 launches in a few months you don't have a bunch of "old" hardware sitting around. I don't think the 4870s have had issues selling, perhaps the yields have been TO good?

 

[jennyh]

It's possible that ATI have been keeping back their absolute best rv770's. After almost a year of that they could have built up a good amount of them. That is going to annoy the hell out of a lot of ATI fans however.

 

[spathotan]

It's possible that ATI have been keeping back their absolute best rv770's. After almost a year of that they could have built up a good amount of them. That is going to annoy the hell out of a lot of ATI fans however.

Kinna like how Nvidia screwed people on the pricing for the GTX 280 @ $700? Or bringing out a faster GTX 260 after everybody had already bought the original 260? Or bringing out a faster GTX 280 and renaming it the 285 after everybody had already bought the 280?

 

[L1qu1d]

This card won't piss off users at, if anything they should be proud that the next card that came out is a revision, and still manages to pull some nice results.

Users should be pissed off when going from a 8800 GT to a 9800 GT and coming out with the same card, but higher price....thats when they should be pissed

I think the 285 GTX (which shrank the 280 speeded card down to 300 from 400), and this revision 4890, seem to be worth the extra time waited for

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Only problem will be, as the 285 came out with less power needed, Im thinking the 4890 wont be so lucky, and may need more power. Time will tell, and in a couple weeks, we will know all

 

[cyber_jockey]

This should spice things up abit http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13656051