[SOLVED] RAM - half speed, half size, half mental issues.

[Vlad24]

Hello,

I have had recently many tough times with RAM, now I have bought a new HX432C16PB3K2/32 - the specs of this baby are such: 3200MHz, 32 GB, CL-16. Once I first plugged them in (right after clearing CMOS because I was testing the other RAM before which did not work and took a lot out of my soul) I opened BIOS and simply set memory frequency from [Auto] to 3200MHz because that is what I thought is supposed to be running at. I succeded, opened my task manager - it showed all my 32 GB nicely prepared to be used for rendering and the speed was 3200MHz. I was glad and immediately launched a render test to see the difference in speed, it worked very well, but at some point maybe after 5-10 minutes of use - it just crashed with the blue screen and message of something about allocated memory (can't recall the exact sentence). So, I launched it again and... This time I got a weird thing - half of my memory has been "Hardware reserved" and speed was probably also lower than it should have been, but not half (2400 Mhz I assume).

So, I tried to figure out the problem which led me nowhere, as I looked at some forums and some said to take a look if integrated graphics card might be eating this memory - I thought well ok (it did not come to my mind at that moment that I actually did not have any integrated graphics card in my Ryzen 7 2700x) - this led me searching BIOS for this, did not find anything, decided that I probably saw such an option in older BIOS (Yes, when I bought my motherboard BIOS was adjusted for my Ryzen CPU and looked accordingly with red theme, but I used MSI life update software and upgraded to the latest version of BIOS because I thought it might help with the problem I had at the moment). So, after that, I had to spend some time to downgrade BIOS back to the Ryzen adjusted one, I found the setting and.... it was empty, it was the moment when I realised why too (absence of IGC).

So, while I was wondering what was causing hardware reserve of half of my memory at the moment I set up some setting in DRAM configuration (either A-XMP profile or simply set the frequency to 3200MHz by myself) I launched windows and checked the task manager - memory was no longer in reserve - "Yey" - I thought, but then checked the speed which was running at 1600MHz - "Goddammit". So, no matter what I was trying in BIOS (Frequencies, A-XMP profiles, manual timing settings according to CPU-Z, manual voltage) I simply could not get the speed to change it would be 1200, 1467, 1600 MHz (2400, 2933, 3200 MHz respectively).


So, I started talking to the MSI tech support and got some useful insight on how CPU works:

And later explained to me about the problem that I am just describing in the post about having "half speeds" :

In short - I am confused, should it be showing in task manager half speed or not? And how to battle this beast because I am doing it for about 3 days already with nothing by headake.
Here are some extra info you might need to know to have a clear picture of the situation at hand:

1) My specs:
CPU: Ryzen 2700x
Motherboard: MSI 470x Gaming pro
RAM: HX432C16PB3K2/32 - Hyper X 3200Mhz CL16 2x16GB DDR4
GPU: 2 x Radeon 580x
System: Win 10 64x
Power unit: Evga 750GQ

2) RAM I am using ( HX432C16PB3K2/32 ) is COMPLETELY compatible with both motherboard and CPU according to the MSI compatibility table: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X470-GAMING-PRO#support-mem-14. Here is the process of me finding this out:


2.1) Finding CPU in the list of supported and identifying its core name:

2.2) Finding in the list by the core name same pinnacle-Ridge and searching there:

2.3) And pasting the model name in the search - compatible!

3) The BIOS I have now is the one you get while in the same compatibility page looking at CPU, next to my Ryzen 2700x was the BIOS file that I installed, BUT: the date of it is 03/15/2018 which is, for some reason older than the one I had when I bought it, so I am confused here as well.

4) At some point I had some wacky thing going on: I have 2 SSD, one is the regular one, another is the one I took out of my old laptop - both of them have windows - but both are different. At some point, while failing to load to my regular desktop - pc would decide to boot automatically the other one, which surprised me because I never used this desktop on this PC before - and for some reason the size and the speed shown there were alright! But not in my regular desktop which still would not launch at all. So, I thought to reinstall windows and clear all the mess out of there, though it might have been windows causing it after hundreds of restarts. But no, didn't help, even more [wacky] thing was that the regular desktop suddenly lost connection to the internet - stopped recognizing it! While the former laptop desktop, if loaded, would have a normal internet connection (the internet thing happened even before windows reinstall)

5) I will attach some of my bios snips for you to look at:


5.1) BIOS A-XMP turned on, profile 2 - 3200MHz - rest is in the auto - results in windows: 1600MHz speed

5.2) BIOS just showing the timing configurations which to mee seem slightly higher than they should be

5.3) No XMP, but DRAM frequency is fixed at 2933 MHz (Which is according to the MSI tech support is a normal frequency for Ryzen 2000 series IMC). Result in windows - 1467MHz

5.4) Both A-XMP and fixed frequency at 3200 MHz - result in windows 1600Mhz

I hope that would be enough, I am just confused with this issue, I thought I knew a thing or two about hardware, now I realised I have no idea about this world, it is wild
Forgive cumbersomeness of the question, I just wanted to make everything clear so that there would be less need in extra questions to clarify it.

Thank you for your attention hope there is a solution to this problem.

 

[MadsModsat]

If Task Manager shows either 1600MHz or 3200MHz your RAM is running at its rated max frequency.
As far as I know, Task Manager just repeats the information it is fed, and it can be different between different motherboards, what they report, which would be either actual / base clock or effective clock.

If you want to be absolutely certain regarding your RAM speed, you can use GPU-z, which is a very useful tool (freeware)

If you download and run CPU-z (by CPUid), and go to the tab called "Memory", it will always show you the base frequency under "DRAM Frequency", which you then multiply by 2 to get the effective clock (DDR = Double Data Rate).

Some apps reports base clock (1600MHz for your RAM at XMP settings), and other apps report effective clock (3200MHz). Both values are correct when reporting your RAM frequency.

If your RAM speed is reported as 1067 or 2133 on the other hand, then your RAM are running at default clock, and not the XMP values.

EDIT : CPU-z Download

 

[Vlad24]

If Task Manager shows either 1600MHz or 3200MHz your RAM is running at its rated max frequency.
As far as I know, Task Manager just repeats the information it is fed, and it can be different between different motherboards, what they report, which would be either actual / base clock or effective clock.

If you want to be absolutely certain regarding your RAM speed, you can use GPU-z, which is a very useful tool (freeware)

If you download and run CPU-z (by CPUid), and go to the tab called "Memory", it will always show you the base frequency under "DRAM Frequency", which you then multiply by 2 to get the effective clock (DDR = Double Data Rate).

Some apps reports base clock (1600MHz for your RAM at XMP settings), and other apps report effective clock (3200MHz). Both values are correct when reporting your RAM frequency.

If your RAM speed is reported as 1067 or 2133 on the other hand, then your RAM are running at default clock, and not the XMP values.

EDIT : CPU-z Download

Thank you for your answer, I was also using CPU-Z before windows reinstall, thought that it wasn't so handy, or I simply did not figure out how to use it well, which seems to be closer to reality I will attach those snips made in CPU-Z and driver cloud hardware monitor.

I have noticed that the drivers cloud shows stat Max bandwidth - 2400 and each separate stick is having 1.6 Ghz - which is 1600 Mhz if I am not mistaken. Soooo, I am still not sure how to react to this. Do those stats mean everything is alright, or not?
Thank you.

 

[MadsModsat]

In the last images you have attached, the program you are using is reporting two profiles for your memory. Default frequency 2400MHz (Genrali Information) and the currently active XMP 3200 MHz profile settings (Timing 2)

When you activate the XMP profile, you are essentially overclocking your RAM from the default base clock of 2400 MHz to the overclocked (XMP) 3200MHz speed.
Just like a overclocking a 2.4GHz CPU to 3.2GHz. It is still a 2.4GHz CPU as default, it is just operating at a higher clock.

The XMP profile is simply a factory tested overclocking preset.

The RAM you have, has two XMP profiles according to both your GPU-z screenshots and KINGSTON (XMP 1 = 3200 MHz and XMP 2 = 3000 MHz). So if you had chosen the other XMP profile, the information in the last images would still show 2400 MHz under Genrali Information, but it would show 3000 MHz instead under Timing 2. At least that is what I would expect.
This also explains why you have the options of 1200, 1500 and 1600 for your RAM as you mentioned in your first post.

However, your GPU-z screenshot confirms your RAM is currently running at ~1600 Base clock, which results in a 3200 MHZ effective clock - and that is exactly what it is supposed to with the XMP 3200MHz profile activated.

In short - everything looks perfectly normal.

 

[Vlad24]

In the last images you have attached, the program you are using is reporting two profiles for your memory. Default frequency 2400MHz (Genrali Information) and the active XMP 3200 MHz profile settings (Timing 2)

When you activate the XMP profile, you are essentially overclocking your RAM from the default base clock of 2400 MHz to the overclocked (XMP) 3200MHz speed. Just like a overclocking a 2.4GHz CPU to 3.2GHz. It still a 2.4GHz CPU it is just ooperating at a higher clock.

The RAM you have, has two XMP profiles according to both your GPU-z screenshots and KINGSTON (XMP 1 = 3200 MHz and XMP 2 = 3000 MHz) - So if you had chosen the other XMP profile, the information in the last images would still show 2400 MHz under Genrali Information, but it would show 3000 MHz instead under Timing 2. At least that is what I would expect.
This also explains why you have the options of 1200, 1500 and 1600 for your RAM as you mentioned in your first post.

However, your GPU-z screenshot confirms your RAM is running at ~1600 Base clock, which results in a 3200 MHZ effective clock - and that is exactly what it is supposeed to with the XMP 3200MHz profile activated

Ahaa, I see. Well thank you, you have just explained it very well, now just the realisation that I spend whole yesterday on trying to fix something what was working well

Although I still have one last issue - the reason I bought new RAM is that when I was working in my 3D software Blender it was crashing when I would render, so I thought that it might be because of lack of RAM (although I had 16GB, not like it was critical). So, after the installation of the new one - it was still crashing - but somewhat inconsistently - sometimes it would not render, or crash almost in the beginning, sometimes not crash at all. And sometimes it wasn`t just the software crushing, but my PC blue screening and restarting. So, I am not sure whether or not it is a software related issue, or maybe my 3D scene is overly complicated, or it is actually hardware.

If you have any thought about that it would be great, but I am really gratefull for the information you have provided already

 

[MadsModsat]

Do you have two separate kits of 16 GB (2x8 + 2x8) purchased individually, or do you have a complete kit of either 4x8 GB or 2x16 GB modules purchsed as one?

If you are mixing two kits of 16 (2x8 + 2x8) this may very well be the cause of your problem.

Even when buying completely identical kits, manufacturer, timings, speeds, voltages - everything, you run the risk of the kits either not working together at all, or you may encounter stability issues.

You should always buy a so called "matched kit" with the complete amount of RAM and RAM modules you will be using.

But I understod your first post as if you had one kit of 2 x 16 GB RAM modules bought as a single kit?

One thing worth mentioning regarding XMP profiles, is that although the RAM modules themselves are rated for running a certain XMP speed , a lot of other things come into play when assembling all your hardware - and in the end, a "guaranteed" XMP setting might not be obtainable by all, because you are essentially overclocking. It is not just the RAM, it is also the CPUs integrated memory controller that is affected by this overclock.

Sometimes you can simply bump RAM voltage a tiny bit and that solves it, other times you have to adjust timings a little, and sometimes if you are very unlucky, it is next to impossible to run the highest settings, and one might have to settle for the next best.

Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with Ryzen CPUs, other than I have noticed a lot of people having trouble with the XMP settings.

At least your RAM is on the QVL, which is perfect.

One thing you could try is the XMP 2 profile of your RAM, which is the 3000 MHz one. If stability is better, that's an indication at least of what the issue is.

But I'm sure some of the more Ryzen and RAM knowledgable users on the forum, will be able to guide you when it comes to the stability issues you are experinceing, than I am - I'm afraid I have too little experience in the area.

But I certainly hope you'll have it all runnning perfectly smooth as soon as possible

 

[Vlad24]

Do you have two separate kits of 16 GB (2x8 + 2x8) purchased individually, or do you have a complete kit of either 4x8 GB or 2x16 GB modules purchsed as one?

If you are mixing two kits of 16 (2x8 + 2x8) this may very well be the cause of your problem.

Even when buying completely identical kits, manufacturer, timings, speeds, voltages - everything, you run the risk of the kits either not working together at all, or you may encounter stability issues.

You should always buy a so called "matched kit" with the complete amount of RAM and RAM modules you will be using.

But I understod your first post as if you had one kit of 2 x 16 GB RAM modules bought as a single kit?

One thing worth mentioning regarding XMP profiles, is that although the RAM modules themselves are rated for running a certain XMP speed , a lot of other things come into play when assembling all your hardware - and in the end, a "guaranteed" XMP setting might not be obtainable by all, because you are essentially overclocking. It is not just the RAM, it is also the CPUs integrated memory controller that is affected by this overclock.

Sometimes you can simply bump RAM voltage a tiny bit and that solves it, other times you have to adjust timings a little, and sometimes if you are very unlucky, it is next to impossible to run the highest settings, and one might have to settle for the next best.

Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with Ryzen CPUs, other than I have noticed a lot of people having trouble with the XMP settings.

At least your RAM is on the QVL, which is perfect.

One thing you could try is the XMP 2 profile of your RAM, which is the 3000 MHz one. If stability is better, that's an indication at least of what the issue is.

But I'm sure some of the more Ryzen and RAM knowledgable users on the forum, will be able to guide you when it comes to the stability issues you are experinceing, than I am - I'm afraid I have too little experience in the area.

But I certainly hope you'll have it all runnning perfectly smooth as soon as possible

Thank you once again for the info, I will do more tests to see what is troubling my pc.

 

[sumanta9]

"double data rate" - Nope. it has nothing to do with how much speed you see. If your RAM says 3200 MHz it means 6400 by the logic of DDR. Not 1600MHz. This clearly means there is something wrong with one of your RAM sticks. I have 4 systems in my home. 2 Desktops and 2 laptops. All running DDR4 RAMs. My desktop used to show 3200 MHz but recently started showing 1600MHz. In Bios it shows 3200. But there is some issue with one of the sticks. My other devices got 2400 MHz RAMs. They all show 2400. Not 1200. So please stop with the "double data rate". A 3200 MHz DDR RAM is supposed to provide double of 3200. not half of 3200.
Well, RAMs have got pretty good warranties. so get your RAMs replaced.